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Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Season 4 Episode 9: From Fanfic to Bestseller: Xio Axelrod’s Romance Writing Playbook
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Bestselling romance author Zeo Axelrod takes listeners behind the scenes of contemporary romance writing in this candid, insightful conversation about creativity, publishing paths, and authentic storytelling.
Axelrod reveals her unique "ZeoVision" approach—visualizing characters and scenes like Netflix in her brain—which allows her to deeply inhabit her fictional worlds before writing. Her journey from rewriting a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode she disliked to becoming a Target Book Club selection demonstrates there's no single path to publishing success.
The contrast between traditional and indie publishing experiences offers valuable perspective for authors navigating both worlds. As a hybrid author, Axelrod discusses how the "hurry up and wait" nature of traditional publishing challenges her creative process compared to the immediate gratification of self-publishing. She shares practical advice on formatting, distribution, and marketing across platforms while emphasizing the importance of building genuine community connections.
Most compelling is Axelrod's perspective on diversity in romance. As a Black female author, she advocates for stories that reflect real-world experiences of marginalized characters without reducing them to their struggles. "These are the same kissing books," she notes, "they just happen to have brown people in them." Her approach to contemporary romance balances acknowledging societal challenges while centering joy and authentic relationships where characters complement rather than complete each other.
For writers at any stage, Axelrod's core message resonates: "Write the book of your heart." Despite industry trends and publisher hesitations, authentic storytelling ultimately finds its audience. Whether crafting conflict, developing characters, or building worlds, the key is creating stories that feel true to your vision while engaging readers seeking both escape and emotional truth.
Ready to bring your romance writing to the next level? Visit jdmyall.com for workshops, show notes, and more resources to help you craft your own bestseller.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener-affiliate.html?fpr=craftchat
romance writing tips, Xio Axelrod interview, hybrid publishing, indie vs traditional publishing, how to write a romance novel, diverse romance books, Black romance authors, contemporary romance, writing diverse characters, how to become a bestselling author, self-publishing romance, romance book marketing, author branding tips, publishing industry insights, behind the scenes with authors, ZeoVision, writing the book of your heart, romance readers podcast, Black female authors, Target Book Club author, fanfiction to published author, writing for marginalized voices, romance book podcast, how to format and distribute a book, publishing advice for new authors
🎙️ Craft Chat Chronicles with J.D. Myall
Candid conversations on writing, publishing, and creative life — featuring bestselling authors, MFA students, and writers at every stage of the journey.
About J.D. Myall
J.D. Myall is the co-chair of Drexel University’s MFA Alumni Association and a publishing and library professional. She is the creator and host of Craft Chat Chronicles, where she interviews authors, agents, and industry insiders about the art and business of writing.
Her work has appeared in Ms. Magazine, Writer’s Digest, and HuffPost. Her debut novel, Heart’s Gambit, releases with Wednesday Books/Macmillan in February 2026.
When she’s not conjuring magic, murder, and mayhem on the page, J.D. mentors emerging writers through workshops and alumni programs, fostering community among aspiring and published authors alike.
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Introduction to Craft Chat Chronicles
Speaker 1Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles , the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction . Here at Craft Chat Chronicles , we bring you expert interviews , insights and tips on writing , publishing and marketing . Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey . For workshops , show notes and more information , visit jdmayalcom . That's jdmayalcom .
Speaker 2In season four , episode nine of Craft Chat Chronicles , we have best-selling author Zeo Axelrod . Again we have best-selling romance author Zeo Axelrod In Season 4 , episode 9 of Craft Chat Chronicles . Let's get chatty
Meet Bestselling Author Zeo Axelrod
Speaker 2. Today we are joined by best-selling author Zeo Axelrod . She writes contemporary romance novels like the Girl with the Stars in Her Eyes , and she's captivated readers with her blend of music , emotion and unforgettable characters . She's also a proud member of the Tall Poppy Writers and today she'll tell us about all things romance writing , publishing and whatever else she feels like sharing with us . Welcome , zio Hi . Thanks for having me . Of course , I'm curious . Can you tell us a little bit about ZioVision ?
ZeoVision: An Unconventional Writing Process
Speaker 4ZioVision , right . So I'm really really bad with outlines and plotting . Well , traditional plotting , I'll say Like I have friends who use sticky notes and like a big whiteboard and they like write their scenes on a sticky note and then move it around on the whiteboard . I sit in all of that sort of process because it's so organized or organized chaos , whereas I have what I call ZeoVision , which is kind of like Netflix in my brain , where all of my stories and characters live and I'll just flip channels and watch them play out scenes , different scenes , um , sometimes over and over again , dialogue and things like that , so that when it solidifies then I can sit down and write it , because I can't like just I used to just sit down and write when I was before I was traditionally published like as Nandi , you're kind of like on your own timeline . So I was like let's see what we're doing today . I'm interested in in this character but being , you know , on a deadline , it's like okay , I really need to know what these people are doing . So when I know that I have a book due six months to a year out , I start living with those characters super as early as possible so that they can really know who they are , you know what the world that they live in is and all of that stuff . And then by the time I sit down to the keyboard to write , I know everything that's . You know that's going to happen until I get towards the end . Then I'm as surprised as my readers are .
Speaker 4Most writers that I've spoken to like they've written all their lives . They started in elementary school and that kind of thing . And I think you know we all have that backstory . But I grew up in the music industry , so my writing experience was in that realm rather than in fiction . But you know , I always had creative writing projects in school that I
From Fan Fiction to Publishing Success
Speaker 4thought , okay , I could do something with this . You know , if I was going to be a writer one day , you know , but didn't really think anything of it until one day I was . I had the flu and I was sitting on the couch sort of flipping channels and they were showing a Buffy marathon and they showed this episode and I really , really hated the episode . So I rewrote it and that was like the first thing that I wrote . That was like long-form fiction and I didn't know that this was a thing that other people did . I didn't know about fan fiction at the time , but that's really where I started was with fan fiction in the Buffy fan world .
Speaker 4So yeah , Buffy's awesome yeah , right , they're bringing it back . I'm gonna be . I'm curious to see how that's gonna work with this , like the same actors and stuff oh really , I didn't know that was so like full reboot or like yeah , they're doing a reboot , um , and sarah michelle geller is involved , so I'm guessing she's gonna be training younger slayers or something like , because they can't have , like , spike be a vampire because he's aged right . So I don't know how that's gonna work , but I'm excited to see maybe buffy's the new slayer's mom or something the original maybe something , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 4I mean they kind of went through that whole thing at the end of the show where she had all of those young army of slayers that she was training or whatever . But yeah , be curious to see I didn't know that yeah I guess we'll go ahead and get started .
Speaker 4Oh I'm sorry , go ahead now . I was gonna say in terms of , like , publishing books . That was an accident as well . I was sort of um on the fringes of another fandom back in 2013 and I got inspired . I mean , the show was cool , but the fandom was really wild . It was the show called scandal that that was on ABC . Yeah , that fandom was out of control and so I just wrote a lot of like what if things , little snippets for them , and it eventually turned into a long form piece because they kept asking for more and more of this thing . So I had 200,000 words at the end of that and it went viral . I didn't know , and a friend was like , hey , you should do something with this . So that's literally how , like , I started publishing books love that
Traditional vs. Indie Publishing Experience
Speaker 4.
Speaker 2What do you find the hardest ?
Speaker 4the I know your hybrid , the indie books you do , or the traditionally published books oh , the trad books are way harder , because I published , I think , eight or nine books as an indie and most of those actually all those I didn't work with anyone else no editor , no proofreader , no anyone . I was sort of like a one-man band , which I don't suggest for any author to do . That it's just how I was working . And the first book , the Girl with Stars in Her Eyes , was my first traditionally published book , and it was the first time I had to turn in a manuscript , wait two months to get it back and then make changes and then argue over those changes , and I had to go through it three times because the editor that acquired me at the publisher had a totally different vision for the book , and so she was like this is not what I thought it was going to be , can you try writing it this way ? And so I was like oh , I guess this is what you do as a trad , let me try writing it this way . And so I was like oh , I guess this is what you do as a trad , let me try writing it her way .
Speaker 4And then it just didn't work for me , and then she left and so I got , you know , assigned to another editor and I was like , okay , what kind of book do you want ? And she fortunately said to me give me the manuscript that you want me to read . So I was like that's a relief , because it wasn't like , well , here's what I think the book should be . It was more like you're the author , this is your voice , what do you want to give me ? And so we went from there . But it was the whole like hurry up and wait thing about trad publishing is the worst part of it for me , because I , as an indie , I could write a book in a week or two or three , edit it and put it out . Then I'm done , you know , moving on to the next project . By the time I get some of these manuscripts back , sometimes I've forgotten what's going on . I have to go back to my ZeoVision and like replay the episode or something so I can remember what mood and what thought process I was in when I wrote it .
Speaker 2So with the traditionally published I'm sorry , with the hybrid books generally , who do you use , or what apps and programs help you as far as like with your editorial or your marketing , or bringing it to the world ? What's that process look like ?
Speaker 4Um , I know authors who use Scrivener and I have Scrivener . I've tried to use it . It's kind of clunky for me , it doesn't work for me , but I know it works really well for some authors . So I do recommend it for people because it's really a great organizational tool . Um , I've always used Grammarly , even back when they first started . They have so much more AI incorporated now that I try to turn as much of that off as possible because I find it sort of intrusive . Even Word has like AI in it now .
Speaker 4So I'm just like can you not like tell me how to write ? I just want to know if this word is spelled correctly or if I use that too many times , like you know that kind of thing . But my editing process includes reading it out loud , which is where I catch a lot of things , I think because I've consumed so much story . I'm such an addict when it comes to story I watch movies and shows and read so much that the cadence of storytelling at least the way that I write comes somewhat naturally to me . So when I'm reading something out loud especially , I go , oh , that doesn't work , this is too clunky , or this scene is too long , or you know , those beats are kind of ingrained in me , which is why I really want to push myself one of these days and write outside of contemporary and outside of romance , to see if I can write something else , because I'm used to those beats , you know . But yeah , it's kind of a clunky process but it works for me .
Speaker 2And do you use IngramSpark when you're putting them in the world ?
Speaker 4Um , I have used Ingram . They have very harsh return policies on their print books . Um , so I I went through CreateSpace , which was acquired by Amazon , which became KDP KDP's print arm . So most of my stuff I will . For my eBooks I'll upload to each platform individually , so I'll do Barnes , noble , amazon , kobo and Apple . I probably should go back to Google Play , but I had such bad interactions with them when I first started . They will do this thing or they used to , I don't know if they still do where you would put your book up , say , for like $7.99 , and they would discount it to like $7.37 , and then just to have the lowest price and then Amazon would pick up that price and it was just all this confusion about what the price you know . So I just stopped uploading to Google Play and also it was really easy for people to pirate from Google Play in the beginning , so when I started , so I just don't put them there , but my traditional publishers do , so I'm there .
Speaker 2Now how does that work with your contracts when you're
Building an Author Brand
Speaker 2doing your hybrid stuff ? Do you have like a clause where you have to wait a certain amount of time before you could put out your own ?
Speaker 4Traditionally you do , but I don't , and I don't know how that happened , because I didn't ask for it . Yeah , I think it was an oversight . Honestly , I work with two publishers Sourcebooks Casablanca , which is the larger indie publisher . They're still indie even though they're half owned by Penguin . They're distributed via Penguin and they have a lot of imprints , so they're very , very large indie . And then my other publisher is very , very boutique . Like five employees work at this company and it's a very different experience working with them .
Speaker 4Put out a book on the same day that a trad book comes out . I won't , because you're cannibalizing , but it's really freeing . When I first signed with Source , they had a tradition , they had a clause that was just automatically in the contract . That was like contemporary , like anything that you write is contemporary we want first look at . And I was like , well , I already have other series or other worlds that I've built going . And they're like yeah , yeah , yeah , that's true , that's true , you're okay . So you're coming from indie world . So how about just music ? And I was like , well , I already have a couple of other properties where I'm working . And they're like okay , fine , just this world that you're writing for us . So I got it narrowed down there . But sometimes , when you're looking at those contracts , make sure that they're not like trying to take control of a sub-genre that you're really fond of , like if you're writing hockey romance , for instance , make sure that they have just the world that you're building for them and they don't have , like , all of your , your hockey .
Speaker 2So yeah I love that . What do you think you did right that helped you make it into traditional publishing ?
Speaker 4when I first started , um , I came straight out of . I was actually doing both at the same time . I was touring with my band and writing while I was on the road . And so I thought , as an indie musician , I was like what are the things that I had to do to build up the name of me as an artist or my band or whatever ? And it was like have a website , have a social media presence , have your merch and your logo . So I had all of that before I had a book and I had authors who said to me you really shouldn't do that . You're really going to confuse the publishers . They won't know what to do . They're going to want to cultivate your brand and I was like , why would I want someone else to put my brand together for me ? So I built all of that up and got my name out there before I ever published a book , because I wanted to have a organic audience .
Speaker 4I've never liked ads , even as a musician . I never liked buying ads and I know ads are really , really big for indie authors . They'll buy Facebook ads and Amazon ads and I think I've spent maybe $50 in my career on ads because I'll boost a post for $5 when a book comes out or something like that , but it's just never where I wanted to put my money . So I thought , okay , I'm going to do some guerrilla marketing and , just you know , build my name up on social media . I was interviewing authors when they had releases and putting them on my blog and sort of like building them up and helping them promote their stuff , and it just became part of the community . And I think that's a really big thing for authors when you're starting out is to become a part of the community and not just like I'm writing a book , I have a book and here's my book and let me sell my book . It's all about like supporting other authors and , you know , lifting other people up and celebrating their accomplishments too .
Speaker 2I love that how did you get ? Traditionally published . Did you do it through the slush pile did ?
Speaker 4they court you . How did that work ? They courted me . I've never been on , uh submission , I've never queried , which is weird , um , but I I think it's a combination , honestly , of me being a social media butterfly and just really sort of inserting myself in the room . I I just walked up and pulled out a chair and sat down . I didn't hang out in the corner and go oh , excuse me , do you mind if I stay over here ?
Speaker 4I was just like hey , I'm an author too . Let me sit here . I was just there , I put myself there and having an unusual name , I think , stuck in people's minds as well . So in 2017 , I think it was 2017 , I wrote a book called Camden and the guy on the cover is a former rugby player and I had met him at an event in Ireland that I'd done the year before and I was trying to figure out how to break into this next level because I had done okay with my early books . But I was like you know , these guys are getting invited to all these cool things and I want to know how to do that . And he said put me on your cover . I was like sure , dude . And he was like no , seriously . So we exchanged information and I bought an image from him and put it on the cover and he's like I'm going to come and do events with you . And we did some really large book events together and people came to my table just to see him . You know , because he was at the time , people really loved having people on covers .
Speaker 4Now , in romance , it's all illustrated covers . But back then , which seems like we're talking like ages ago but this was like 2017 , right , it's like eight years ago , but they were like you know , oh my gosh , this guy is on this cover and who are you again ? Kind of thing . And then they pick up the book and they read it and they love the book . But it was like anything that sort of got me another point of connection with a reader outside of the book itself . I would try to do that . So if , like you know , the first book I wrote was set in scotland , so I was doing I did a partnership well , not a partnership . I did a thing with walker's shortbread where I was like they sent me a bunch of shortbread because I had been using it and they were like that's really cute , here's a case of shortbread for you . And I used it and slapped my book stickers on it and like , gave it out at events , and it was just sort of like I love shortbread , so I love cookies or whatever it was . It was just another point of contact .
Speaker 4So , stuart , the model became another point of contact for me in this world and I think , because I did it as an indie and I hadn't been publishing very long , publishers were like who is this girl ? Like what is she ? Who , what ? Where does she come from , you know , and this with this weird name and this , like she's going around with this model . And so they started asking me like you know , do I have books in the cupboard that I haven't published ? And I don't keep books in the cupboard .
Speaker 4If I write something , it usually gets published by me or someone else . So I was like no , but I have some ideas . And I talked to a few of them and I realized a couple of them wanted to just take the story and put their logo on it and it had nothing to do with Zio , like the brand that I had built up would have been useless to them . And then Sourcebooks was like no , we really like your brand , we like your voice , we like everything you're doing . We just want to work with you . And I was like cool , I have this idea for an all-female rock band for book series . And they were like cool .
Speaker 4And I was like well , I'm not going to go into this without an agent , so let me figure out how to get another , because I had an agent we didn't work out . So I didn't have an agent at the time . And so I called around to some friends and asked who loved their relationship with their agent and went from there . So it was sort of like had the , not the deal , but like the , you know the premise of a deal , and I was like , well , I'm not walking into the situation without someone , so got her . She was like this could take months , this is going to take a while , and like three days later we got an offer letter . So it was like boom , boom , boom , boom . So it was very strange walking into that situation . But yeah , it was backwards . Everything I do is backwards . So just take everything that I did and just reverse it and you'll be cool .
Speaker 2So you skipped over the first agent . How'd you get the first agent and how did you know it was time to transition to another , the first agent .
Speaker 4I didn't think I needed an agent as an indie
Writing Romance: Conflict and Character Development
Speaker 4no-transcript . So after a year I was like , you know , I think I think it's just time to move on . And so we parted ways and everything was cool and then I thought , okay , I'm on my own , this is maybe just where I should be , until all the other stuff started happening and I was like , oh , maybe not . Maybe I do need someone who can read these contracts and explain them to me and make sure I'm not signing my life away , you know what was your biggest surprise when you went into traditional publishing ?
Speaker 2What was different than you thought it would be , or learning experience ?
Speaker 4It may . Again going back to the time thing , I think , because in romance things move really quickly . We read a lot of books , like I know authors who write 12 , 14 books a year , you know , and I think in other genres it's like one every two years , you know , once a year , whatever it is . But romance readers read five to seven books a week and so romance authors are under pressure to write a lot more . And so I was used to , like I said , I have an idea for a book , let me write the book , let me edit the book , let me make sure the book , the cover , I did the covers , I did everything , and I was like , okay , now I'm going to put the book out . And it was kind of like a month , two month process , so going and saying you know , here's the manuscript and then I'll get it back to you in two to three months .
Speaker 4And then happened during the pandemic . So everything felt really surreal at the time . We were kind of stuck in the house and I remember getting past pages and I was like sitting at this little because my husband had to work from home , so he took over my office here and I was in our little tiny back room with this little mobile laptop desk , like trying to go through past pages . But I was like this is a really weird process . I don't even know who these characters are anymore . You know , I'm used to like diving into the world , really saturating myself with the world and the characters and really getting to know them and getting the book done and then moving on .
Speaker 4This was , like , you know , visiting an ex I don't remember why , like it was just like one of those things . So that was . That's a huge . Even now I still struggle with it . It's a huge thing . But we've we're sort of getting into this place now with my editors , where they know my process and so they're trying to give me as much time to just saturate and soak it as they can . But again , the production and sales teams have their deadlines and so we have to meet them . So it's just you got to be disciplined , I guess , and sales teams have their deadlines and so we have to meet them . So it's just you got to be disciplined , I guess .
Speaker 2How did your expectations of being an author measure up against the realities ?
Speaker 4I think , as I had zero expectations , everything has been delightful . No , it hasn't , it's um . I always I was comparing it to the music industry for a long time , because the one thing I will say about publishing , especially in the romance genre , is that the community is amazing . I can't recall a time when I released a song or something and had another artist go oh my God , if you like my song , you should check out this person's song . And that just doesn't happen . If I released an album , you should check out their album . Like that doesn't happen . So to have other authors champion .
Speaker 4My very first novella I wrote in secret . I didn't even tell anybody I was writing it . I just kind of like wanted to go through the process of writing a book and putting it out . And so I think I mentioned it to like one author and we were in this little like writing group together and she was like , oh my gosh , guys , did you know ?
Speaker 4Zio wrote a book and the next thing I knew it was getting reviewed in USA Today , because one of the other authors knew somebody else who was a reviewer and I was like what ? What just happened , you know , but it wasn't me , it was other people championing me . That's why I say for authors who are starting out , like find your community , because you never know , like what can come , not that you want to do it just to get things out of it , but like you never know what doors are going to open for you and the tall poppies you mentioned earlier is a prime example of that . Like they really got out of their way to champion each other and to celebrate each other and to console each other when things go wrong . You know , so you want to find that circle that you can trust how did you get involved with the tall poppies ?
Speaker 4um , a friend of mine was in the tall poppies . I think she was there from the beginning . Denny s bryce um and she it was . I was gonna say last year was 2023 . They had their retreat in philly and so she was like , girl , I'm gonna be in philly , come have dinner with us . And I was like , okay , I'll sneak in and have dinner with you guys . And I went to their reading that they did at Barnes Noble and was just hanging out at dinner and Nomi was like she's really cool , like Denny , let's see , would she want to be a poppy ? And she was like they're coming after you .
Speaker 4And I was like , absolutely I will be involved because I'm all about championing other authors and celebrating them and you know cross promotion and all that stuff .
Speaker 2That's cool . So do the Tall Poppies . Hang out a lot outside of promoting each other .
Speaker 4No , because we're scattered all over you know we have a few members that don't even live . Well , we have one that lives in Hawaii . I think there's a few that live outside the country , but the ones that live in the Philadelphia area I do see more now that I'm a member , but it's weird Like I see more authors that live across the country more regularly than I do , ones that live like there's one that lives a half a mile from me and we laugh because we only ever see each other at events somewhere else .
Speaker 4You know um , it's weird , but yeah , very true , very true , let's dive into love story oh , I'm so bad at conflict , um , so
Making Contemporary Romance Fresh and Relevant
Speaker 4I I tend to write external conflict , um , like external reasons why the couple can't be together . I write contemporary and I have friends that won't read contemporary because they're like there's no reason they can't be together , just fix it . They're adults , just talk . And I'm like , wow , you're making my job so hard . But so I tend to do external stuff , um , with the lilies series , which is the rock band series , the first book is is one of my tropes . Do you remember what I called ?
Speaker 4It is childhood friends to enemies , to friends to lovers . Second chance , workplace force , proximity are the tropes that are in there because they're . They're in this . Uh well , he's not in the band , but he manages the band . She's in the band temporarily at first and there's a no fraternization clause in there . You know , they're like stuck in this project that has to be done in a short amount of time , so , um , but they have all this unresolved conflict from their childhood and everything you know . So I was like I'm just putting it in there , you know , and this is my first trad book . So my editor was like , yes , I love it , I love it . I was like this is so cheesy , but , but .
Speaker 2I had to make it work .
Speaker 4I had to make it work for me , you know , um , so there was a lot of , a lot of , uh , I guess , pressure from people around them and stuff like that . And then you know , but I didn't want , like the the . The thing about second chance in romance is that there's usually a misunderstanding or some , some hurt , some wound that hasn't been healed from whatever . Whenever they were together before . In these guys case , they were not together as a couple , they were friends , but he betrayed her , or she felt betrayed , but they were . She was 17 and he was 18 .
Speaker 4Right , so I'm like you were children . You know how long are you going to carry that wound ? So I had to have them work through it as adults and then and then accept and realize and say out loud , you know what we were kids Like . Why are we holding onto this pain , like that's just , you know , find our way forward from here . So it's really tough . But I know people who do conflict so so well , and I'm like I get frustrated sometimes reading miscommunication trope . I hate the miscommunication trope , but but there's some others that are , just , you know , top notch . I hope I do it well , but I hate writing conflict . I want my babies to be like happy and everything .
Speaker 2So in a modern romance , how do you draw the line between spicy or steamy and too much , and is there a line ?
Speaker 4uh , I don't think there is a line . Honestly , I don't write very spicy but , um , I know authors who write very , very high heat , but they do it with purpose , like it serves the plot , because there's , you know , in in fan fiction there's a it's not a trope but there's a genre called porn without plot PWP which is just like people banging , whatever . It's fine if that's what you want to read . There's erotica for that . You know when . You don't .
Speaker 4All of the , I guess it's just all about the erotic experience . Erotic romance , all of the emotion and plot is served through the sexual content , like they . That's basically how you work through it . In a high heat romance it's still all emotion , it just happens to have more space . So there's something that's . The thing I love about the genre is that there's something out there for everyone . I think that the pandemic and TikTok book talks sort of put an emphasis on dark romance and very , very spicy romance . That sort of took over the bookshelves , like you know . You see all these book talk shelves in Barnes , noble or whatever . Just high heat and dark took over , but it's always been around . It's not new . I think traditional publishers sort of shied away from it's , you know , it's not new . Um , I think traditional publishers sort of shied away from it because they thought they wouldn't sell .
Speaker 4But um they were wrong . But yeah , it's always been around . But I don't , I don't think there's such a thing as too much . I think it's . It's a matter of personal taste . Um , and the thing I love again is that there's something out there for everyone . You can read closed door , or you can read really wild stuff , you know , and everything in between , because it's subjective , right . You know people think my book is crazy .
Speaker 2I'm like what do you think are the elements of a good contemporary romance novel ? What do you like to see when you're reading or writing ?
Speaker 4Well , when I'm writing I was talking about this the other day with someone because as a you know Black woman , a person of color , especially writing the Rock series , as a woman in Rock , as a Black woman in Rock in rock , you know you run into lots of barriers and lots of stereotypes and lots of , like you know , microaggressions , macroaggressions and stuff . So I don't shy away from those . I write queer romance . Well , I don't shy away from the things that people walking through the world experience every day , because I , you know , I don't write utopic books , like I'm not writing utopia . Um , so I was .
Speaker 4I think I explained that there's a scene in Girls With Bad Reputations where my main male character , ty , who is a dark-skinned black man , he's alt , so he wears like utility kilts and he's got piercings and he's got dreads , he's got tats and all kinds of stuff and he's the kind ofings and he's got dreads and he's got tats and all kinds of stuff and he's the kind of person . If he's walking down street in like middle America , someone would probably clutch their purse and cross the street or something like that , and it sort of happens like he's in a situation where this woman makes a comment sort of accusatory like that . He's trying to steal something or do something wrong and he just , you know , shoots her down and gives her a look or whatever . And and he just , you know , shoots her down and gives her a look or whatever . And it's just a passing moment in the book , because the book is not about racism , it's not about misdemeanor or whatever . It's just I can't write a character like that and have him walk through the world and have absolutely nothing happen to him . So I think a contemporary anything should unless you're trying to tell a story of like an alt universe or some sort of like alternate timeline it should reflect the world that you're writing in .
Speaker 4We ran into a lot of problems with that , with COVID , because nobody wanted to write a book with COVID in it and we're starting to see them now . But I remember writing even the girl with SARS in her eyes . I was like , do I mention it ? Do I say anything ? Like they're supposed to go on tour . How do you go on tour in a world that's not doing concerts , you know ? So it was just sort of like we're going to pretend that that doesn't exist .
Speaker 4So I like to see contemporaries that are contemporary , that you know , talk about the world , the issues , the people , the things that people face every day now , all of our concerns and stuff but also talk about contemporary joy and contemporary happiness , because the one caveat of romance is that it has to have a happy ending right . Happily ever after , or happy for now , which is what I write , and happy ever after , right now , looks very different than it did in 1955 or 1970 or 1990 . You know , not everybody wants to get married and have kids , you know . So I think there are so many ways , there's so much more freedom now to write contemporary , I think than we had even 20 years ago .
Speaker 2What makes a good love interest in a romance ?
Speaker 4Oh man . So when I write my books I tend to fall in love with one of the characters , characters . Actually , the Lilies is a really great example , because the first book is Tony's book and Seb is her love interest and they're friends when they're kids and whatever . But it's really Tony's story that I'm telling . Seb gets his own chapters and his own POV , but it's really her journey .
Speaker 4And I didn't know the other three women in the band that well . So I had to get to know Kayla , because I knew Tony for years , even before , like I kind of knew her . But Kayla the drummer , when I wrote book two I didn't really know her that well . So I had to really dive , you know , deep into her character . And then once I got to know her and fell for her , I was like so who deserves her ? Who is the person out there that would deserve her ?
Speaker 4So I had to build that person from that desire and luckily Ty , her love interest and his grandfather , walked into my head fully formed , like they just sort of strolled in into that channel on Zeal Vision and were like , hey , it's us , this is my grandson , isn't he cute ? He would love her , you know , like that kind of thing . But I always try to look for someone who will compliment and support my main , whatever my whoever my main protagonist is , you know , because it's not a , it's not a you complete me situation . I'm not that writer , it's a . You're the , you're the partner I want to go on this journey with , and so that's what I look for , is someone who would be a partner .
Speaker 2And what makes a good protagonist in a romance um someone with a story to tell .
Speaker 4I mean , I , a lot of my characters come from what-if situations . Uh , I read a lot of I have a lot of books that where the main character started out as a side character in someone else's story . Because I get , I get distracted by cool side characters and I'll watch another property or watch a movie or TV show and just someone will walk in and they'll have one scene , but there's something about their voice or their presence and I'm like , hey , they're really cool , I wonder what their life is like . My brain will just go off from there . So I think someone who has a story to tell that I haven't heard before , or a twist on a story or something like that , someone who just is unique and hasn't had the light shine on them before , for me , and what makes a good villain or antagonist ?
Speaker 4Someone who has a lot in common with the protagonist , almost like a mirror reflection of the protagonist , but displays some of the worst qualities , you know , amplifies the worst qualities of that protagonist . In the Girl with Stars in Her Eyes there's a character , candy , who is the . She's the guitarist in the band that Tony replaces , and the band is basically giving candy and ultimatum . They're like either you know , get your shit together or we're kicking you out , and so they give her a timeout . Basically , they they tell the press that she broke
Diverse Voices in Publishing
Speaker 4her arm or something like that , and so she's not going to be with them for a while . And they bring Tony in to replace her for some important gigs that they have Tony in to replace her for some important gigs that they have .
Speaker 4But behind the scenes they're like we're over it . Like you , you know you're so talented and you , you know we love you so much , but we cannot deal with this anymore . Like you're just too much , you're too much of a liability . And she continues to be an antagonist throughout the series , you know , so I'm having , I'm having fun making her . She's not , you know , I didn't want to make her a caricature , but she basically embodies all of the cliches of the sex , drugs and rock and roll thing that you hear . You know about the music industry . She's fun .
Speaker 2I love that . How do you keep a story feeling fresh when you're using the familiar romance tropes and beats ?
Speaker 4friends who became , well in her mind , enemies . You know he's he's been like carrying this bucket of guilt around for the last 10 years . You know , every time he thinks of her he's like weeping in the corner or whatever she's like . You know she wants to put her fist through the wall every time she thinks about him . So when they come , when they meet again , it's a very different , very different things happening for both of them .
Speaker 4I love stuff like that . I love um . I think maybe going back to like my days of watching Buffy and the Mutant Enemy um writers , what they did with that show and Once Upon a Time and Firefly was they would take . They would take a moment . If it's a heavy moment , they would throw a bit of levity into that moment at the worst possible time , and they would also do the same thing with a really funny moment . Someone would just throw something really serious and there was something really serious would happen , and I love ending chapters with the opposite beat or note that the chapter represented . So if it's a really light chapter , I'll end the chapter on something really heavy . Or someone will just say something out of the blue that's like well , that was dark . You know what I mean I love sort of mixing things around and keeping my readers on their toes that way I love that .
Speaker 2What do you think should be in the first chapter of a romance , at the beginning of the story ? How do you start it off ?
Speaker 4um , usually I will set up whoever my main protagon is , their core want or what they think they want , because usually that changes right , it's like what you need versus what you want , but it's like what they want , what they're really going after . With the lilies , I had to go with something different because there was so much backstory that we ended up doing flashbacks with the first book . So the book opens with her core wound , and so this book two was the same thing . I was like I'm not going to do any flashbacks at all in book two and my editor was like you can't do that . She's like you established it with book one . We got to keep going . So I'm like , ah , so I had to .
Speaker 4So the core wound is what opens these books . So the first one starts with tony being basically a shipped off to live with her father by her mother on her 12th birthday , and her father is someone she's never met before . So she's basically like bye , have fun , have a good life . And in in book two , kayla's uh book opens at her brother's funeral . So it's like let me just hit you in the head with a sledgehammer , let me just pierce your heart with this arrow , and then we're going to go fall in love with someone . You know it's dark but you know it works for that series .
Speaker 2Love that . And how do you avoid the soggy middle ? How do you keep your romance engaging ?
Speaker 4I don't know , I don't know . Does anybody know how to do that ? That's like you know , when you're going through revisions , that's a , that's a part you stick on the most , I think , because of the way with my indie books , the way that I write , I edit , I do cyclical editing , so like I'll write , I'll write , you know , chapters one and I get to chapter five . I'm like , oh man , if I do this here , that means back in chapter three . I need to establish that . So I'll go back to chapter three and rewrite that and I'll just , and I'll just . By the time I get to the end of the first draft , it's almost done , you know . So I think I've avoided it in that way , Writing my trad books , because of the way the timeline goes , I run into the problem of saggy middle a lot more because I'll write something that I think , oh , this is cool .
Speaker 4And then three months later I get it back and there's all these notes like this scene should be here and that should be moved there and you should do this . And I'm like , let me remember what I was going for , and then I have to look at what you want and then I have to figure out how to make the meat in the middle , somewhere , you know . So it's an ongoing process .
Speaker 2If any of you guys have any tips , please let me know . And you said you need a happy ending . You also mentioned earlier about the grandfather and his grandson showing up fully formed . Are you one of the writers that hear the characters voices ?
Speaker 4in your head when you're writing yeah . Yeah , so you sob in the sad scenes .
Speaker 4No , I don hear , no , I don't , I don't . It's really weird . Like I talk to authors who cry when they're writing sad scenes and I don't , I , I don't know , I'm broken , but um , but ty , yeah , especially with the lily series , like I , I can smell the stage , I can hear the music , I can hear the crowd , I can feel the wind when they're on , you know , when they're at the festival , stuff like that . That it's very a visceral experience . But yeah , ty and Pop-Pop were really fun .
Speaker 4I've never had that happen before where I was like , okay , I've got Kayla down Now , who could she ? And then he's like , hey , I'm here . And I was like , wow , all right , let's go . Pop . Pop is one of my favorite characters I've ever written and I love the dynamic between the two of them . It's such a really amazing supportive support system he has , even if it's just one person , because his life is not going great . Yeah , it's been interesting writing musicians and music adjacent people . Coming from the way that I grew up , you know I'm trying not to put people that I know in these books , but it's hard .
Speaker 2How do you know when your story is over ?
Speaker 4Um , the ? The definition of romance is that it has an emotionally satisfying ending . So I think the story is over for me , which is why I don't do outlines , because once I finish an outline , the story is over and then I can't write the book . So the story is over for me when I feel like everyone has what they need to move forward . If they're still stuck , if they're still struggling with the thing that they struggled with at the beginning of the book , then I've done something wrong . You know , if they're like okay , that was , that was something All right , what's next Then , then we're ready . That's when I think it's over .
Speaker 2Love that , love that . There's been a lot of talk about the rise in book bands and stuff lately . What are your thoughts and feelings on that ?
Speaker 4Oh man , you know , I mean I just joined authors against book bands . I mean I've been retweeting their stuff or sharing their stuff . I don't tweet , I don't do X , but I was like , wait , I didn't actually join . So I did actually join . But I've been a member of the Authors Guild for about a decade and any in PEN America I've done , I did a band book week last week , last week , last year . I'm always happy to talk on this , on this subject , because I think it's absolutely insane what's happening now with books . Um , yeah , I mean , what kind of society bans books ? So that's pretty much my only thought on that is , like , you know , I do not support it and uh , we'll fight against it as much as I can . Me either . I always thought it was the parents decision with the children's reeds .
Speaker 2I do not support it and we'll fight against it as much as I can . Me either . I always thought it was the parents' decision with the children's reads .
Speaker 4Yeah , yeah , it's the same with like I mean , you know , I I grew up in the eighties and it was like the eighties and nineties were the height of the you know label of the music thing . You know your kids can't listen to this , and I was like parents should thing , you know your kids can't listen to this certain media , and I was like parents should decide . You know , and if you know , if you're , if you're talking to your kids , because I have parents that come to my table when I'm at like signings and moms are like my 12 year old will want to read one of my books . I want to read the lilies because the covers are pretty and it kind of looks like YA and I'm like these are not YA books . There is sex on the page Not a lot , but there's sex on the page . And sometimes , like I had a mom not too long ago , she was like okay , I'll read it first and I'll save it for a few years . I'm like cool , you know , that's that works . And others are like we'll read it together . And if she has questions , you know , then we'll don't know why .
Speaker 4Why people think that they have a right to say how kids , how people , can raise their kids . It's strange , but anyway . But they're not stopping at kids . They're not stopping at kids , that's the thing . You know , like they want to . There's . There's a bill , I think in iowa . Is it iowa where this one dude wants to ban romance novels , basically , and TV shows that have any adult content , like Game of Thrones and stuff like that ?
Speaker 2So yeah , we have work to do . Yeah , we definitely do , and at no time in history was the society burning books and banning books on the right side of history Never on the right side .
Speaker 4That never ends well .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't , it really doesn't . So , being a Black female romance writer , how would you describe that experience ? Has it been pretty traditional ? Have you had any bumps in the road in the way Like what's that been like the ?
Speaker 4road is a roller coaster . The road is gravel . It's been . It's gotten a lot better in the last four or five years .
Speaker 4I used to be a member of Romance Writers of America , rwa , which still exists but doesn't anymore . Really , it kind of imploded right before the pandemic . They had 10,000 members at the height of the organization . I think they may have 2,000 now , not quite or 1,500 or something like that , because they I don't know they were run by people who didn't believe that everyone deserved a seat at the table . You know they had Beverly Jenkins , who is a legend in the genre , has been writing for decades , has been on every list , you know , won all these awards . Had never been nominated or never won a reader award , which was like the Oscars for romance writers had never won , and it was like it was . I think no Black author had won until Kennedy Ryan in 2019 .
Current Projects and Where to Find Her
Speaker 4No Black author had won until Kennedy Ryan in 2019 . And for an organization that was founded by a Black editor , it was kind of glaring that and they pushed her out eventually . But like it was such a strange thing and the comments on the forums were like , well , we should have a separate category for these books and it was like oh , we're back to segregation , so it's been . It's been , you know , a fight and a struggle , but the community again has been fantastic by and large . I think people want to read more diverse voices . They are .
Speaker 4I have a lot of authors who are doing really well and then reaching , you know , back and going back and going hey again , if you like me , my book's not coming out , my next one's not coming out till next year . Check out this author . You know I love this book . You know , um , and so it's been .
Speaker 4It's been a really sort of wild ride , especially for me over the last couple of years since the girl with stars in her eyes came out , because that book threw open some doors for me that I couldn't have done as an indie . It was a Target book club , it was a book of the month and on it was like an Amazon editor's pick . It was all this stuff that I couldn't do on my own and because of that it got put in front of readers that you know wouldn't have seen it otherwise , and so a lot of like successful white authors were like , oh my gosh , where have you been ? I really love this book . Hey , my readers , have you seen this . Do you know , zia ? You know . So it was , you know , really wild to see it . It's still like three years later , four years later , since four years oh my God , four years since this book came out , it's still being , you know , passed around and recommended and stuff . It's really wild .
Speaker 4But , yeah , it's been a struggle . There's still a lot of people who only read your book in February , you know , or who only recommend your book if someone's talking about diversity or whatever . And it's like I made a joke on March 1st like , hey , guess what ? My books are really good the rest of the year too , like they're readable in March through December and January too , you know . So there's stories about people who fall in love , you know , and I think our society , especially in the United States , has been conditioned to think that if it's the story from a marginalized community , if it's Black , brown , queer , asian , then it's got to be about the struggle , it's going to be sad and it's going to be whatever . These are the same kissing books that you're reading . They just happen to be some brown people in them , you know .
Speaker 2So it's been , it's been interesting , it's been interesting and I'll let you guys in on a shocking secret . There's like every day , black and brown people don't wake up like , oh my god , the struggle . We live in a world where racism exists , but we have happy times , sad times . All the things you go through we go through through too . You know what I mean .
Speaker 4Yeah , I mean you get comments from readers that are like well , I want to read diverse , but I read to escape and I read for joy and I'm like what do you think I'm writing over here ? This is a rock band . What do you think they're doing ? You know , like it's just , it's one of those things that we're just fighting against this stereotype , or fighting against these preconceived notions . You know , and it's it's not just on the authors to do . The publishers have to do with . The librarians have to do this , the booksellers have to do this . You know everyone's . I mean rebecca um , who wrote fourth wing . Rebecca yaros , a friend of mine , love her books , she's amazing . But there are all these like black fantasy authors that are out there too . You know um who who deserve , like tracy dion um , who wrote right like know we're the midnight release parties for that , you know . So it's , it's just . There's a lot of work to do . There's lots of work to do . As authors , we've got a lot of work to do .
Speaker 4Yeah , true , and the struggle books are important too , because they teach empathy and they teach lessons , but Absolutely , I think romance is what is a is a very subversive genre because we could , we do all these life lessons and we teach all these things . But we do it , you know , with people kissing , you know we tend to like , uh , slip those those life lessons in there , you know that's your kennedy , ryan because kennedy ryan if you guys haven't read her writes books that will rip your heart out and then sew it back together .
Speaker 4They've got the heat and everything , but she's going to teach you , you're going to learn reading her books . She's amazing .
Speaker 2You guys have any questions , just jump in .
Speaker 5You had mentioned . There were a lot of things that I wrote down . Uh , that was one that I , I really , I really appreciated that you mentioned . It was the forced blindness of contemporary issues from publishers , and I I'm I'm hearing about this from , I mean , like nobody wants to talk about climate change , nobody wants to talk about political issues and does that . Um , in that same topic of that , there's a lot of work to get done . Do , uh , do you think that that is something that will decrease in publishing or will increase in the coming storm , as it were ?
Speaker 4I think that publishers are only interested in what will sell , but they don't know what will sell . They think they do but they don't . Which is why , you see , especially in my genre , a lot of publishers are reaching out to indie authors , like Sourcebooks has an entire imprint called Bloom out to indie authors . Sourcebooks has an entire imprint called Bloom , where they are signing successful indie authors to the imprint and re-releasing their books and those books . I mean , this is one of the reasons that dark romance is so big is because these indie authors have been writing this for years and selling it and making money hand over fist . And the publishers are like , oh , we can't write , we can't do that . And then they realized during the pandemic that that's what was selling and so all of a sudden they're snapping them all up and looking for the next one .
Speaker 4Fanfic is the same way , like there are a lot of fan fiction authors who've been , you know , swapping out the names and publishing that stuff on their own , and the publishers are realizing like , oh , allie Hazelwood writes , you know , star Wars , reylo fic , and she's got thousands of readers . Let's , you know , change the names and slap a cover on it and let's sell it . You know , and I love Ali's work um . Julie Soto , who's I think her debut came out in 2021 or 22 as well , was another Reylo um fanfic now she's doing . She has a Draco Hermione romanticy coming out in September that I read the fanfic of and it's amazing .
Speaker 4But like they're mining all of these sources that they've been ignoring for years , so they don't know what works or what readers are looking for . They're just guessing . They're guessing that no one wants to read about climate change . They're guessing that no one wants to Like right now . They're saying historicals are dead . They said that when I started 10 years ago are dead . They said that when I started 10 years ago , historical romance is dead . I'm like have you seen bridgerton ?
Speaker 2you know , like what are you talking about .
Speaker 4So they , they don't . They just they make these statements or someone in the sales department is like you know what ? We didn't do that great with that one book . So the entire subgenre is done . You know , paranormal has was supposed to be done and now vampires are back . So it's , I think , that they , if they see it working one , they're going to look everywhere for it . So I always tell people write the book of your heart . If it's a topic or something that you're really , really passionate about , write a good book . They're going to . Somebody's going to want it . You know what I mean , because there's always editors out there looking for the next thing . They just have to fight with their sales department to convince them that it's going to sell .
Speaker 3Unfortunately , just jump in I was going to ask it was that , uh , if you weren't writing it , what ? What is the romance that you would like to see ? What is the romance book that you would like to see that you haven't written or that you would ? You know that you would call the book that you , you ideally would . It may not get published , but it's something that you would want to see a writ right . You ideally want to .
Speaker 4It may not get published , but it's something that you would want to see a writ or write there's . So I grew up in the music industry . My father is a songwriter , producer , arranger , blah blah blah . He was heavily involved in the 70s sound in Philadelphia and the stories that he's told me are bonkers . I would love to write like a modern historical set in that like in the 70s or something I will one of these days .
Speaker 4But I need to like I mean , I'm not great on research and also sticking to like time periods where you have to . You can't do certain things Like they can't just whip out a cell phone and start , you know . So I have to like . You have to like that . But a couple of years ago I was on a panel and someone asked me what the next big thing I thought the next big thing was going to be and I said horror romance . And I'm so glad that I was right because it's like a thing now . So I would love to write a horror romance . Um , I have an idea for a horror romance comedy that I might play with at the end of the year and then decide whether I'm going to self-pub that or or shop it . But yeah , um , but I'm always like envious of people who can write big world building fantasy and sci-fi and stuff like that , because I don't have the discipline , even historical , like I don't have the discipline for them .
Speaker 5I admire it um , the we , the self-pub , versus ? Um , going to your team . Do you mean , like , because you you talk about source books , so you'd go with the project that you would liked and then say , hey , let's do this , or if it's something that you think that you should do on your own , you that process ? On the other end , uh , you had mentioned amazon , barnes and noble , but do you create for each each one of those different publishing platforms or do you just use one ? Um , if you chose , let's say you do an indie book and you've created it , you decide you want to publish it on your own . Are you creating a new ? I mean , it's the same book , but how do you go about with those different platforms ?
Speaker 4Yeah , so basically you're setting yourself up as a trade , like a business or a trader with the platform . So I have , like you know , an id or whatever with each one of them . There are also like companies like draft to digital , um , which people usually call d2d , but draft to digital will take your manuscript , take your , your product and they will distribute it , um , your ebook , uh , for I think it's either 10 or 15% that they take in a royalty . It's almost like an agent having an agent , but you don't have to deal with uploading files to different platforms and waiting for approvals and things like that . It's a little bit harder to do price changes and promotions when you're working with an aggregator like that , but it's not that hard .
Speaker 4I mean , you know I use Vellum , but it's not that hard . I mean , you know I use Vellum . If you have a Mac , vellum is a fantastic program for formatting and they're always adding new features and stuff , so you can make it look pretty and have all your . You can add images , you can do whatever you want , and then it will create each individual file for each platform . It used to be Mobi for Kindle , but now it's EPUB , but it'll create one for each of them and you just upload them through their portal .
Speaker 5So it's relatively simple , but it's just time-consuming Upload to each specific because it's a different format for Amazon versus Google Play versus Barnes . Noble correct .
Speaker 4I think they're all EPUB now . Amazon was the one that had the different . They were different , but it still creates a separate file for each one , just so you can keep track of them , but I'm pretty sure they're all using EPUB now .
Speaker 5Do they all require a different ISBN number ?
Speaker 4ISBN . No , it's totally up to you . Most of them will assign one for you if you don't have one of your own . I used to buy them . I do it for my print books I do . I buy the ISBN , but for my e-books I'd stop doing it so much because it's just a lot of money . But they will assign one for you .
Speaker 5Thank you .
Speaker 3Hi Zia , thanks so much for talking with us . It's really helpful . Oh cool , you mentioned cyclical editing , which I think is what I do . One of those people that has a lot of the like you said . You have friends that do the sticky notes on the big sheet of paper , divided , like that's what I have , but it's very deceptive . It's not as organized as it seems . So I do a lot of that cyclical . You know I'll write ahead and then I'll go oh , I have to go back and change that , but I'm doing that on my first draft . Did you say you do that on your first draft or do you go back and then do that ?
Speaker 4no , I did on my first draft and I you know , and people will say , don't do that , just get the words down . You can always go back and fix it , but I'll forget what it was that I wanted to do . You know , even if I make a note , I'm like I don't remember exactly what it was that I wanted to do . So , yeah , I'll go back .
Speaker 3Okay , well had . I didn't know that there was a term for it , so now I made it up . I don't know .
Speaker 4There's probably a better term for it . Somewhere there's probably some like really academic sounding thing , but that's what I call it .
Speaker 3I think it makes you constantly like , yeah , yeah , okay , yeah , thanks . Now I know what to call it . Sure .
Speaker 2You mentioned that you create your covers . What platforms or tools do you use for that ?
Speaker 4I used to use Photoshop because when I was an indie musician I had to teach myself Photoshop and HTML and all these things for my band because we couldn't afford anybody . So I was like I'll do it , and now I use Canva almost exclusively for graphics . I've only done a couple of book covers in . There's an anthology that I curate every year and I've done those in there . Um , and I've done one or two of my covers in there , but um , but yeah , it's , it's . It's a great tool . It's relatively simple to use . They have a lot of templates , especially for , like , social media graphics and stuff book covers not so much , but like , for social media graphics it's great . But um , but yeah , photoshop was , you know , my go-to for a long time love that , love that .
Speaker 2Any more questions ? No , well , we appreciate you so much . You go , go ahead . I thought somebody was about to say something , okay . Well , we appreciated you so much . You were entertaining and informative and we learned a lot about you . Can you tell us about your um , what your current project is , though , before we go ? I'm sorry ? No , yeah , what are you writing now ?
Speaker 4so I'm working on I have double deadline , as always . So I'm working on my two trad books . Uh , lily's number three , which I just got the cover for , but I can't show you what the title is nothing but the girl . Nothing but the girl , um , but it won't come out until next July 2026 , um . And then my other book is for Blue Box Press , which was my , is my other publisher , and I think we're looking at Late Fall for that one , and it's the follow-up to Love on the Byline , and they haven't released a title for that either . So it's all very super secret . There's like title reveal , cover reveal , whatever . So I'm working on those two .
Speaker 4And then I'm actually revamping the very first thing I wrote that I was talking about earlier , that big thing that I wrote in the beginning on my blog , the 200,000 word thing that's getting a revamp and I'm trying to . I was going to serialize it for Kindle , vela , and then Amazon killed the platform , so I have to figure out something else to do with it . But I want to shop the audio rights to see if I can get a multicast recording , because it's it looks sort of like a , it's sort of like radio drama , ish the story . So I think it would work really well with , like you know , four or five people doing the roles or something . So that's my personal project .
Speaker 2Love that . Where can people connect with you ?
Speaker 4I'm everywhere on socials is Zio Axelrod , except for X , and ZioAxelrodcom is my website .
Speaker 2And if they want to hear you play , where can they see your band ?
Speaker 4I actually perform now and record as the Lilies , which is the band in the book Because I created this whole world around them , so they have their own social media and stuff like that . But yeah , if you go on Spotify or Apple Music , it's the Lilies , L-I-L-L-Y-S , and I think we have three songs up there right now and more to come .
Speaker 2I love that . Thank you so , so much for joining us . We learned a lot . We had a lot of fun . I appreciate you . It was great meeting you .
Speaker 4You too Thanks for having me .
Speaker 2I Good luck , everybody Thank you , thank you .
Speaker 6That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD Mayer . Thanks for joining us . If you liked the episode , please comment , subscribe and share . For show notes , writing workshops and tips , head to jdmayercom . That's jdmayocom . That's jdmayocom . While you're there , join jd's mailing list for updates , giveaways and more . Got questions .