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Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Season 2 Episode 6: Launching Your Author Podcast: Tips from the Afronauts Podcast Team
What if the loss of a dear friend could spark a new beginning that transforms the literary landscape for Black authors? Join us in this heartfelt episode as we welcome Beatrice Winifred Eicher, Chelsea Gayden, and Jill Tu, the dynamic team behind the Afro Knots podcast, which began as a tribute to their late friend KL Bird and flourished into a supportive community for Black writers. Beatrice delves into her love for Southern Gothic and horror, Chelsea embarks on her journey from querying to signing with agent Sarah Fisk, and Jill celebrates the release of her book "The Dividing Sky" while preparing for her middle-grade debut. Together, they share how a shared passion can push you from being an unagented writer to a debut author.
Discover the magic behind the Afro Knots podcast as we discuss the importance of authenticity and community in podcasting. With anecdotes about meaningful exchanges with authors like Tracy and Karen Strong, and plans to expand through a newsletter and Discord, we explore how opening up about the topics you love can forge genuine connections with your audience. Our conversation captures the excitement of starting a podcast using accessible tools like Anchor and Spotify for Podcasters, while also balancing the roles of creator and author. We talk about how a podcast can become more than just a platform but a refuge for sharing insights and experiences.
As the Afro Knots team navigates the world of publishing, Chelsea and Jill candidly share their trials and triumphs in seeking literary agents and developing their writing careers. Chelsea recounts the impact of the pandemic on her storytelling, leading her to a successful pitch contest, while Jill reflects on her six-year manuscript journey and the invaluable mentorship she received. Listen as they share the joys of becoming role models and how their platform serves as a beacon of support within the Black community. From personal tales to professional advice, this episode is a treasure trove of inspiration for aspiring authors and podcasters alike.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener-affiliate.html?fpr=craftchat
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction. Here at Craft Chat Chronicles, we bring you expert interviews, insights and tips on writing, publishing and marketing. Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey. For workshops, show notes and more information, visit jdmyallcom. That's jdmyallcom.
Speaker 2:In season two, episode six of Craft Chat Chronicles, we talk to the award-winning crew of the Afro Knots podcast. That's Jill Tu, author of the Dividing Sky, chelsea Gayden and Beatrice Winifred Eicher. They talk about their podcasting and writing journey, about using a podcast as a source of networking and information and a source of marketing your books, and they give tips for aspiring authors and podcasters. So it's a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Let's get chatty. This is season two, episode six of craft chat chronicles. Welcome ladies, welcome everybody. Um, you guys want to tell us a little more about yourselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Beatrice, you want to go first.
Speaker 4:Sure, so my name is Beatrice, my pronouns are they, them, and I am originally from Knoxville, tennessee. I write a lot of Southern Gothic, a lot of horror, a lot of dark stuff. That is my, uh, my, comfort.
Speaker 5:Um been doing this podcast, the afternoon's podcast with my friends jill and chelsea for three, four years now. A minute it's been.
Speaker 4:A minute it's been a minute, um, and it has been really, really powerful, really powerful experience. And yeah, I have a book coming out next fall, my adult horror debut. It's called I'll Make a Spectacle of you. And then I have a picture book coming out in spring 2026 called Charlie's Honky Tonk Missions, about Charlie Pride, america's first Black country superstar. So that's me and I'll hand it over to Chelsea.
Speaker 5:Sure. So I'm Chelsea Gayden pronoun she, they and so I recently got agented and I would really like basically thank the podcast for like helping make that happen, because I think I was really like lost before. I found like this group. I was, like you know, writing but didn't really know like what direction, querying with no results. But I don't know, meeting these people and having them push me and meeting other authors, like it really I don't know, got me to a new place where I feel like I don't know really happy about the direction I'm going in and I write YA, fantasy and sci-fi and I have a book hopefully going on submission early in next year Yay, say it a book, hopefully going on submission early in next year Yay Say, and I'm Jill Tu.
Speaker 3:I am the author of the Dividing Sky, which just came out this past October. That's a young adult dystopian romance and generally I write kind of YA sci-fi and then also middle grade. So my middle grade debut is also coming out this April from Freedom Fire. That's an imprint at Disney Books and that is called Kaya Morgan's crowning achievement and yeah, I know we'll get into this. But I mean, I think the coolest part of the podcast and like all this by far has been being able to like go on this journey with Beatrice and Chelsea and like we started the podcast before we were even agented like any of us, so to go through like the whole thing, you know, all the way to debuting, and now Beatrice is going to debut and Chelsea is right around the corner. I know, um, it's just been really cool to to see the whole journey from start to finish, or to start from start to the next chapter, I should say love that, love that.
Speaker 2:How did you guys meet, um, and what inspired you to start the podcast?
Speaker 4:Wow, we met.
Speaker 3:Who's going to go without crying? I know.
Speaker 4:I was like I'm like, okay, I will go. So we met in a Slack channel officially through our late friend KL Bird Kevon Laybird friend KL Bird Kevon Laybird and we met through just really wanting community. Kl was really a big pusher of that and he was really like we need to do something as Black authors to build ourselves up. He wanted a space that we made for ourselves and so he really started that and we volunteered to help and it was a really uh, chaotic beginning because we had no idea what we were doing we had a podcast single I didn't have a single microphone.
Speaker 4:I didn't have. I you know I'm not a gamer, so I also didn't have these headphones that y'all have over the. I mean it was, I had to have, uh, kl. Jill Chelsea explain a lot of stuff to me. I watch a lot of YouTube videos about how to get started, uh, how to set up a mic, how to like lighting. All of this, um, we really started from scratch, from like nothing, like zero experience, from from having zero knowledge, to really, um, relying on each other to build each other, like our confidence up, because, also, the the big part in the beginning was does anyone even want to hear us talk? To Joe's point, we're not agented. At the time, none of us were agented. Kl, no, kl was agented, did he? Yeah? He had just got agented yeah.
Speaker 4:And so we were querying, we were hustling, we were, uh, scrappy and continued to be. Um, so, yeah, that was. That was the, the beginnings of the podcast. It was birthed through really wanting a community that we made for ourselves, and we stuck by it.
Speaker 2:So how did you decide, like, how do you decide who your guests are going to be and who does the reaching out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that process has evolved, I think. I think at the beginning it was like who will talk to us? Before we really had, you know, any sort of following, but I feel like around season two or so, it began to become much more intentional. You know, we started having spreadsheets and thinking about what topics we wanted. We also wanted to be really intentional about having a really healthy mix of, you know, established published authors and up-and-coming authors, because we wanted to keep in mind that, you know, part of the privilege of having a platform, even as small as it mind, that you know part of the privilege of having a platform, even as small as it was and you know, as it was growing, is to be able to put people on to people that are kind of up and coming, that may not have the official accolades yet but are just as worthy of attention and are doing something really cool in the space.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, usually, like from the outset you know our seasons run from like September to April or so, and so, like around actually, we just had, you know, a few months ago, um, like the, the conversation for the next season, thinking about what kind of topics we wanted to cover, um, which ones would require or like be like, enhanced by having other guests, on which ones we could just kind of like kiki on by ourselves, um, and and then yeah, and then from there we kind of split it up just kind of. You know, if there's eight episodes and we each take two or three, love that, love that.
Speaker 2:How do you do the editing and stuff like that? Is it the same way?
Speaker 5:that has also evolved. Funny enough because I think in the beginning, like I edited, like a lot of the episodes, yeah, we were doing like segments and everyone's like editing their own segment and then sending it in.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but now, like Beatrice said, yeah it was chaotic, so we kind of have a more uniform format and we all kind of produce and edit, you know, different episodes, Like we'll, like you know, pick which ones that we're going to do. So it's like you know, we, each of us, can kind of take the process from beginning to like reaching out, figuring out you know who we're going to talk to, to, like you know, scheduling it and sending it out and publishing it. Yeah, Putting up the social media posts, all that.
Speaker 4:So it's like we each own one episode, or like a couple of episodes, but whatever ones we own, we own those from like inception to reaching out to the guests to coordinating the questions to the whole thing. Yeah, yes, and I really love that, by the way. Yeah, it works really well. We continue to evolve every season and every season we get more efficient, we get more organized, so getting each of us to be a producer of an episode was a really good efficiency step for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love that um. Is there any equipment or anything that you'd recommend to people who are just starting out?
Speaker 5:oh, like the snow, snowball, like the snowball mic. Yeah, snowball um, I have a like sony, like like over the ear head, like a good pair of over the ear headphones I'd I definitely recommend those yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, show the snowball.
Speaker 3:Do you have? Can you show them Chelsea?
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah, so I actually have like the and I and I have like the pop filter so that you know you don't hear like the spittles and things.
Speaker 3:For a long time we edited in aud audacity, which is like a free audio editing platform, and then, as podcasts began to be more visual, like spotify has, like basically like a video blog feature, um, now we edit in canva yeah so yeah, yeah and we were.
Speaker 4:We were initially audio only yeah started we only recently became video only.
Speaker 3:Yes, correct edit in canva the video canva does it all love that, love that?
Speaker 2:how do you guys like a lot of podcasts start but then, like beyond season four, you don't see them? Um, how do you guys assure that you guys aren't one of the ones that will fade away and that you continue to work well together?
Speaker 5:I would say it's a combination of things. First, like we're legit friends and we like love talking to each other. We talk like every day.
Speaker 4:We like to talk to each other.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I think one thing that the podcast kind of does is like it gives us a chance to reconnect as authors and friends kind of does is like it gives us a chance to like reconnect like as authors and friends, and we're kind of just doing things that actually interest us, like the topics are things that, like, we're curious about. We want to talk to this author, we want to, you know, maybe meet this editor, and I think that's a big part of like why we're still doing it, cause, as we continue our like author journeys, we still have things that are interesting to us and things that we want to know more about and learn and we just want to share it with, you know, our listeners and our community.
Speaker 2:Love that. What was the most interesting interaction you had, I'm sorry. Go ahead, jill.
Speaker 3:Oh, just one note on what Chelsea was saying. I think we've gotten really good at being honest with each other about like capacity. Absolutely and just saying like, like I think you know we used to do, I think every two weeks an episode, like this season was a month, you know, once a month because, uh, we knew that we had stuff going on, like chelsea had a really busy season at her day, at their day job, and then I had the debut and like everyone's got stuff we're all busy.
Speaker 4:We're all so busy and that's the thing as our careers become successful. We will just get busier and busier. Yeah, that comes with the territory. Yeah, also.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but yeah, trying to leave space for this always and then just being real about when we trade off, right. So because we have that kind of from beginning to end episode ownership model, we can just say, hey, like I can't do the October episode, can you take it for me?
Speaker 2:And we can kind of trade off that way make it more sustainable for each other. I love that. Can you share a memorable interaction you've had with somebody you've?
Speaker 5:interviewed or with each other while podcasting. I feel like whenever I think of like an interaction that made me feel like, oh yes, I'm so glad we're doing this, like when we had Tracy Dion on the podcast and it was just kind of like and I'm pretty sure Tracy's like publicist reached out to us yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4:That was such like that was part of why it was such a big deal yeah.
Speaker 5:Because we were like, okay, we're reaching out to people, we're just trying to see you know what sticks, but having someone who, like we you know we all admire like reach out to us and be interested in, like our you know our little podcast, it was just kind of, like you know, very memorable interaction.
Speaker 4:it was a great episode too yeah, she's a really powerful um speaker and um very kind behind the scenes. Yes, I was gonna say the behind the scenes.
Speaker 3:Yes, I was going to say the behind the scenes, like between Tracy and Karen Strong.
Speaker 4:Karen Strong. I was going to say Karen. Strong who else?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there have been some, some authors who have come on and then like after the recording ends, have given us some amazing like life advice, writing advice, encouragement, like just tea occasionally, you know, keep going, right. I think that's been amazing. And then to be able to carry those relationships you know offline, to like different events and when we see them, um, both on like instagram but also in person, it's been really special I love that.
Speaker 2:Um, I know you guys were talking about doing a newsletter and a discord. What are your visions for that? So with the newsletter.
Speaker 5:I mean it's it's. That's one of the things that, like I, I feel like I've been, you know, writing the newsletter and trying to compile the stuff, you know, just to kind of keep people a little up to date. But right now it's kind of like just whenever we feel like we have like an announcement that we want to push out. But I think the vision is to eventually maybe do something, probably no more than quarterly Cause. Again, we don't want to like overcommit ourselves. So that's basically the vision with the newsletter basically keeping our listeners up to date with what's going on, and not just the podcast, but also like our careers and like where we're each at.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Love that, love that. What other advice would you have for people who are interested in podcasting?
Speaker 5:I would say talk about something that, like, you're interested in, like I was gonna say that outside of like an audience, outside of like other people's opinions, like something that you actually care about and you want to do the research, to do like the work to find out more about the topic. Because that is what you're doing, like you're gonna have to like put together content so you might as well be interested in it and have it reflect.
Speaker 3:You know, you that's like I remember when we were first starting out and, uh, the there was a moment where we were like I remember when we were first starting out and the there was a moment where we were like, well, like who are we to start a podcast? Like what do we really have to say? Right, like who's going to listen to us? And I think you know what, like we've talked about this, like the three of us just reflected, you know, since then is like you often don't realize how much you have to give to people, right, how much do you actually know about what you're talking, about the expertise that you've amassed, you know, over you know, x years of even just writing as like a hobby before you're agented.
Speaker 3:So don't discredit. You know, a, I think, like the actual technical expertise that you have that you may not even realize you have. But B, you know, when I was in the querying trenches and even on submission, like I loved listening to, you know, podcasts that are no longer around, with authors that were at the similar level in their career, because I just wanted to feel like I had like a writing friend in the room. You know, and I think, no matter what, like even if that expertise is lacking or you're not quite. You know where you want to be, yet that's fine. Providing community is just as important to help people keep going.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was gonna say podcasting as community is also really important, and when you're doing that podcast about something you're passionate about or interested in researching more, it comes off as more authentic to your audience and so you make better connections with people. So I think that's why so many authors enjoy our podcast, not just because we talk about writing, but because we obviously love to write. We obviously are, you know, really working hard in this industry and really want to make this work and want to really make moves. And that level of emotional investment put in by us. The listeners can hear it, and they can. They are. That's what they're really engaging with, and so you know whether it's, you know, podcasting for authors or not. I think that authenticity is what people are really looking for and what they really respond to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't profess to be like experts on you know, certain topics. We're not like going and doing research and, like you know, typing up dissertations on stuff, like we just kind of come to it with what we know and I feel like we're really honest about you know where our expertise ends. And then we're like and there's probably another author who can talk more about you know this topic and that's fine, but you know we bring what we bring to it and I think part of it is just like being able to hear someone else talk about it and feel like you're in conversation with them love that.
Speaker 2:Um what hosting platform do you use we?
Speaker 3:use anchor spotify for podcasters. I think it's called it was anchor yeah and are you guys monetized? We are not no you can buy our books.
Speaker 5:You could monetize us by paying her books yeah we don't do any kind of like ads or anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, never for the money I guess we're here we're here for the vibes.
Speaker 4:We really are like yeah, I'm just here for the vibes, I'm here to talk about books yeah well, I put the link for jill's book in the chat, so we do a little bit of yeah, please monetize me, please, somebody.
Speaker 3:Um, you do, you know we do the social media posting, I think, to build awareness and like help our podcast find listeners and find people that could benefit from it. But I feel like I mean, y'all weigh in beatrice and chelsea I feel like, um, so much of what drives me in the podcast is just like curiosity and being like how, like it's like a way to cheat, to get like people to talk to me about stuff I want to ask them questions about, right, it's like. It's like I want to have like, uh, you know, I want to ask this editor, I want to ask this author, you know, pick their brain on this topic and like we'll just tell them that we have a podcast and we'll give us an hour of their time.
Speaker 4:Like it's great, um, that's true like, for instance, I have my my um, my horror novel coming out next year was done in partnership with an intellectual property company, and so I wanted to talk more about IP with authors who had worked with IP companies before also. So I reached out to other authors who I knew worked with IP companies and said, hey, would you like to come on and talk about this? And they were all like absolutely, we would love that. So that is honestly how it goes. I think, oh, I'm doing this thing that I would love to talk about or that I'm interested in, like we're doing one with like romance that we haven't done, like, I think, a bunch of romance stuff. But we were like you know, we really want to talk about Black romance. We really want to talk like.
Speaker 4:I think it's just, what are we interested in? What are we like? What are we? And I think the fact that we're interested in it is indicative of its value for authors at large. Just because I think we all cycle through the same kinds of like could I do this? Could I do that? Maybe I should research this more, maybe what is that like? Every time we see something in publishers marketplace or we see an announcement for something, I'm oftentimes like oh, I've never thought about that genre before, I've never thought about that time period before and I would love to talk to that author, talk to other authors who write historical fiction in that place, or whatever. I really get inspired to ask questions from everywhere.
Speaker 2:And Beatrice, your IP is with Electric Postcard right.
Speaker 4:It is yes.
Speaker 2:My debut is with electric postcard too, for real.
Speaker 4:I was listening to you guys as ip episode yo, that's cool and that's cool, you know, and I and I want to have another, and I want to have another ip episode because I I want to also talk about see this is good, because I love to talk about the entire process of like how you got started, why you did it, and then also on the back end of like how editing was for you, how like you know, that kind of stuff is the stuff that people don't really hear about.
Speaker 4:This is really, you know, even on book tours, even in book signings, authors don't really talk about their like nitty-gritty. I was, I was in the doc in line. Comments like that kind of like serve that line of deep level of like authoring. That really only happens when you get a bunch of authors in conversation with each other for that specific purpose for an hour, for an hour of our time talking about this specific thing, because otherwise, also as creatives, we have a lot in our minds and so I think this is also a good opportunity for us to hone in on a very specific interest of ours for an hour or so and just have the time to really just go dive really deep into something.
Speaker 2:I love that. Do you think you guys in the future would collaborate on like novels or writing as well?
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I would love to. It's so funny how we write different genres and age categories but like we, we each do multiple things but they're like there's almost like no overlap. I think Chelsea and I have a little bit like the dystopian yeah, kind of area but, um, a lot of what Chelsea writes is like fantasy too.
Speaker 3:so it's kind of like we each have our pockets. We've also, we've done like you know, we've been like cpus and betas for each other, um, and like each other's work, and I think that was part of how we first kind of I know.
Speaker 5:I love your writing.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely, it's so cool that we all have such different writing styles and in those writing styles we write very different genres, different types of stories. So, honestly, the three of us has we have such a diverse like list of things. In the next like five years, when all of our stuff comes out, it will be a just an array of genres, age categories. I cannot wait for my afferent shelf, my like, I mean it's really, really, really it's impressive how diverse our interests are and our research tastes are.
Speaker 4:It's really interesting, it's really cool. But I think that they are really that could be really complimentary in some kind of like anthology of sorts.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was thinking the. Afronauts anthology Absolutely like anthology of sorts.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was thinking the Afro-Nazi anthology. Absolutely, that would be really really complimentary with each other to have, like my deep, dark, spooky horror stuff with a dystopian romance or like whatever, like the. Even though they are very, very different, I think that is what makes them, that's what makes them go well together in something like an anthology, because it would give the reader a breadth of things to read.
Speaker 2:I love that. Tell me a little bit about your publishing journey, if you don't mind, Beatrice, because I haven't heard your story before.
Speaker 4:I was querying for years and years and years. And then I applied to Electric Postcard, on recommendation from our late friend KL, and I got in and then I got a deal. Through that and through that deal, I made a bunch of connections and I said and this is why I say IP work, the real heavy lifting it does for your career is the connections you make along the way with the editors, with the marketers, with the agents you're working with whomever. And so through those connections, I got a referral for an agent, several agents. I actually got, like, I think, three or four referrals to three or four different agents and finally one stuck, one really. We clicked, we talked and it was. It just really worked really well.
Speaker 4:And so now I'm agented by, I'm a client of, chelsea Hensley at Madwoman Literary and we are having a blast, having a blast, are having a blast having a blast. I have, uh, like I said, one deal announced and then we're going, I'm going on submission with three, three additional ones in the coming year, and so, um, yeah, I am working all of the time writing, writing, writing, writing, writing, writing, writing. Like I said, I've got a horror, I've got a picture book, I'm also doing middle grade I'm doing YA fiction, nonfiction. I have eclectic tastes.
Speaker 2:Love that, Love that Chelsea. Can we hear your agent journey and how you got your agent?
Speaker 5:Oh sure, so you know, like, like authors do, queried for years and years um, I think I originally queried with like a ya dystopian kind of story, like a plague dirt.
Speaker 7:No, it was a plague.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was like a disease story and I was and I was querying during the pandemic and it wasn't really hitting during that time.
Speaker 5:So I decided to start on a fantasy. I had never written anything fantasy. I was like I don't even know if I can build a world, but hey, let's see, I'm just curious. So I wrote a YA fantasy and I actually really like fell in love with fantasy, like I've always loved reading fantasy but like to write it. I really fell in love with that process and I queried and I even though the draft was not ready to be queried, if I'm honest, I actually got like multiple full requests and I was like, oh, there's actually something here.
Speaker 5:So when I knew that the draft needs some work, I did that and I think I did some pitch contests and that's how I kind of got the attention of my agent now and they requested a revise and resubmit from like a new version of the story. So I revised it, sent it out to beta readers Jill's one and I got some great feedback. And then, when I sent out that rise and resubmit, sarah Fisk at Tobias, like they loved it and they made an offer and you know I'm really happy. I'm working on edits for it right now and I don't know.
Speaker 5:It was just one of those things where it's like I got a lot of like I would say like green lights, like things that were like okay, a lot. You know, I sent out that first batch of queries and like I got some full requests and people are people kept saying like, oh, I love this so much. But so I knew I was like getting quote close with the querying process. So when Sarah offered it was kind of like I was feeling like I was ready at that point. So it's been exciting.
Speaker 4:You were all ready at that point.
Speaker 2:I love that I could relate to your play. During the pandemic I did the same thing. I had a story with witches and a play and nobody bit and I'm like why? Yeah?
Speaker 5:You know, I actually got a full request, a few full requests for that one. I was a little surprised, but it was like, not quite. That too depressing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, or timing. You couldn't have planned that. You couldn't have planned it.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, very true, very true. Jill, can you tell us your journey? I know we heard a little bit before, but everybody might not have been here the last time you visited.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so let's see. So it took me six years to finish the first draft of my, the first book I ever wrote. That was an adult parallel universes story and I queried for that was like 2020. Yeah, but when I was meeting Chelsea and Beatrice, I queried for about six months but I felt like I wasn't executing on the promise of the premise and like delivering on that, and so I was applying. I applied to like pitch wars. I applied to a few different mentorship programs and I ended up applying to Diana Foe, who is an editor at Erewhon now. She was at four back then. Now she's she's one of Hugo as an editor.
Speaker 3:She had a contest that fall that was for black authors of speculative fiction and the idea was that you would submit your manuscript and then she would pick a winner and if she picked you, then she would spend a full year giving you a developmental edit. So, like the whole, do the manuscript, give you a whole edit letter, you go back and revise, give it back to her. She'd give you a few more tweaks and then you'd be able to go query it broadly but also to a handful of agents that kind of wanted a first look at that manuscript. I finished that draft my youngest was like three months old and I was like just typing in, like 4 am in the morning was on my phone and it was gobbledygook. But the deadline came and I was like, ok, I'm just going to send it out, I'm going to fix the grammar and go. And then a few months later got the email that I won, which was incredible. And, diana, you know, that was my first edit letter, my first experience working with like a publishing professional. She really, you know, taught me what it was like to revise, you know, at a professional level, and also gave me permission to do a lot of things, you know, in the genre of, like adult sci fifi that I hadn't given myself permission to do, and get a little bit darker with it. So I revised that and then submitted it or went out to submission.
Speaker 3:On querying again, and my agent, jen Azantian, was on the short list of those agents. And it's funny because Jen is almost never open to queries like just brought, like generally open. You either have to, you know, be part of the contest like this that she's participating in or you have to have something on her manuscript wish list. And a year prior, when I had been querying just on my own, um, my friend texted me at like 10 o'clock at night and was like, oh my gosh, like janice antion just posted this thing, it's exactly what you wrote. And it was something about like I often, I often like wonder about the alternate universe versions of myself and hope that they're doing okay. I've had a really weird dream about an alternate universe version of myself. If you have something like this, please send it to me. And I responded to her tweet and I was like I have exactly this. And so I ended up pulling that query because I wanted to revise with Diana. But when I came back a year later, she was like I remember you and we this kind of like full circle connection.
Speaker 3:Um, so I got my agent that way and then we went on submission with that parallel universe's story and it died on sub after about a year, uh, but while it was on sub, I spent three months and drafted the book that ended up being my debut, the biting spec. Uh, so we sold that to joy revolution, which is an imprint at penguin random House, which is founded. Girl Revolution is an imprint founded by Nicola and David Yoon and it's dedicated to love stories written by and starring authors of people of color. So mine is their first like sci-fi acquisition and that's been really fun. So the Biting Side came out. And then I got another deal with Disney for the middle grade books and then I have another book for Evolution coming out next fall and that's me, love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 2:I am my story was kind of like you guys, how you were saying you started your podcast to reach out to people you were curious about. That's kind of how I started doing like author interviews and stuff. So I reached out to Donnell Clayton and I was doing an interview with her and I was talking about electric. Well, electric postcard didn't exist. Then it was just cake. And I was talking to her about her company and she was talking about how she was trying to, you know, create a gateway for people to get into the industry and stuff. So at the end of the interview I did something I never do and I, you know, shoot your shot. I did. I was like, hey, all right. She was like send me a sample. And I did, yeah, and then she called me back in 15 minutes. She's like I love it, let's work.
Speaker 4:And then I was like, yay nice, you gotta shoot your shot always always, always always love it, love it, love it um.
Speaker 2:Loved hearing your stories, loved learning from you guys there um any other advice you want to offer to authors or podcasters or anybody listening.
Speaker 5:I would say, like, just try stuff. Like even if it doesn't work out like it's fine, just try it. Like, just go out there, give it a shot, like with querying, with story ideas, with podcasts, any kind of content that you're curious in creating. I think if you, you might discover something that, like you didn't think that you could do, like I didn't think that I could do a podcast, like I was like maybe behind the scenes, like maybe not, you know, talk about things in front of a camera, but I've really enjoyed the process and to me, I feel like I've grown out of my comfort zone and I'm really happy that like did it. I remember the night like when everyone was talking about officially doing the podcast, I told my husband should I, should I do that? Like I don't know that doesn't sound like something I do, but something about it it's like appealing to me and he was so infectious and and I did it's like such a great, like life-altering decision really girl.
Speaker 4:I, yes, I think the they, you hear it all the time but community really is so important and, um, in the publishing industry, where it can oftentimes feel so lonely as authors because we're oftentimes writing by ourselves and it can feel like no one else is going through this thing. No one else knows the trouble I've seen, um, but it's not until you're with other authors that you realize oh, everyone is feeling this way or is feeling similar to this. I'm not the only one who has thought, oh, this is actually not a productive way to go about querying, or like, I wish agents did this differently. Everyone is thinking that You're not alone. Everyone is thinking querying is inefficient, or being on submission is inefficient, or X, y and Z is too difficult, or blah, blah, blah. Like this is something that I promise you. Other authors are constantly thinking about and want to like talk to you about it.
Speaker 4:It is an important part of community, like, even if it is trauma bonding, even if it is just like saying, even if it is just like this thing happened and I hate that, and blah blah, even just like being really vulnerable with someone, um, it's really important and I think that is a big part of our success is that we were vulnerable with each other, with like. These are my dreams. This is what I would like to do. Let's have someone on to talk about that. There is a vulnerability there that really comes that I think can be looked over, but it's really important that, like I want to be a horror. You know, my one of my dreams is that I want to own a horror imprint and along the way, I want to have several horror editors on. I want to have other imprint owners on. I want to have you know, x, y and Z. And this is part vulnerability, part ego, maybe of like.
Speaker 4:I would say part manifestation, part manifestation like I'm I'm gonna get this done and, uh, this podcast is a really, it's a really um fun tool for um, for knowledge and community love that, love that.
Speaker 2:When you get that horror imprint, let me know and whip up something scary.
Speaker 4:I will, I will, I'll let me know. And I'll whip up something scary. I will, I'll let you know. Sorry, I can't really be on audio right now.
Speaker 3:But I wanted to ask yeah, how big of a learning curve is the editing and platform and all of that? Might've missed this at the beginning of Zoom. That's real. Yeah, I think it was fine. You know, we, we jumped right in, I think. I think anchor, you know, spotify for podcasters makes it really easy to get started. Um, you know, the onboarding process is really straightforward. Um, we, what else? Like like buying a microphone, like even that is like you know it helps, but it's not like a requirement to get started. Um, and then editing yeah, you can do canva or yeah, audacity is also free and they eat, like this very straightforward, just like editing. It's pretty much like what you would be used to doing in like tiktok claire. So like it's very straightforward. I think it's not complicated at all. It's like scheduling a post.
Speaker 2:It's like it's super easy yeah, I still can't figure out how to schedule an instagram post can you schedule instagram posts?
Speaker 4:I think you can, yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't be knowing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5:I have to know. I felt like I do all my stuff later in the night and then I scheduled it for the next morning because, yeah, that's real you can see and you see, you see our different working styles in action.
Speaker 4:she's just like I don't, I don't want to know, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 2:Any more questions? I'm sorry, any more questions.
Speaker 6:I have a question. I'm very excited for all your books. I hope we get titles after this zoom meeting. No-transcript.
Speaker 4:That's a great question.
Speaker 4:I want to say no, but I will say that I am more aware of what I say.
Speaker 4:Taught me also is how much of a business this is and that although this is, you know, my life stream I'm an artist, I'm a poet, etc.
Speaker 4:I do have to like put on my, my adult pants and recognize that this is a business call, this is a business you know, etc. And so that that part um is why I'm more aware of what I'm saying on the podcast, because I have to be aware this is I'm speaking as um, an author, but also as the client, as a client, as someone who has contracts with a company who very well could take away this book deal from me if X, y and Z. And so I have to be aware of that. It's not like I censor myself necessarily, but it's just more so of I'm not going to say something super outlandish, because I like having my job and money, and that is something, honestly, that you have to keep in mind that like, listen, I'm here for this is my job and, at the end of the day, I need this job, and so that's very honest, yeah, and I think even before.
Speaker 3:I mean, like you know, we we were just getting on the podcast to chat, but we also know that you know it's, it's a, it's a positioning and like marketing tool and if there's an agent who's interested in taking you on as a client, one of the first things they're going to do is check out your social media and check and they did platforms and they did yeah, they did they, and they told us that they did that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like you, you have to be aware of that. You know you're not just like talking into a vacuum, like that's what the group chat is for, if you want to say something.
Speaker 3:That's kind of like you know yes yes, but yeah, I think I think all of us kind of like understood that from the jump and we're just kind of like, you know we can talk and be authentic about things but also, you know, know, be respectful and professional and know that this is the business. I think too, you know, on the other side of being agented and getting a book deal, you can see behind the curtain a little bit and understand that some of the things that you might have thought were like a huge injustice are just like the way the machine works and it's not necessarily any one person having it out for anybody else, right. You know things that a less seasoned author might take personally. Somebody who's been through it, you know, once or twice says like that's just kind of the way the job goes, yeah.
Speaker 4:I want to. I want to emphasize the people looking for you, Because my agent, when I was on the call with her the first time we ever talked, she said I listened to your podcast, I really enjoyed it, and I had no idea that I never I never discussed my podcast with her, I never mentioned it. But she looked me up. She looked up the podcast, my social media et cetera, and she told me I listened to several episodes. You like blah, blah, blah and so you have to also be aware of that. I went to New York last month with my picture book publisher and I had someone come up to me and say, oh, I love your podcast, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, wow, Thank you it's public, thank you, and it was, it's public.
Speaker 4:You, you're right, you, you can listen. Uh, I forget um, and so that is. Those are always good reminders of, like you know, we are not talking. This is in a vacuum. People are listening to us um consistently regularly. Also we have like regular listeners, which is really cool, um, but it's also um a responsibility, because also a lot of our listeners are um black authors, um black unagented authors, um who, and that is you know, also there is responsibility that comes with that also to be, you know, a good, a good resource for them.
Speaker 2:And that you guys are. You're very informative. One of my favorite episodes is the one where you guys were talking about how they mistreated poor Bonnie Bennett.
Speaker 5:That was a great one.
Speaker 4:And that was because I wanted to talk about Bonnie Bennett. That's true.
Speaker 5:Beatrice was like I want like this whole conversation and we had it and it was great.
Speaker 4:I did. I said that. I said, listen, I want to talk about it, I have a lot to say and I still do and I always will. And you know, and that's really a really good representation of the podcast, because it really is just me being fired up about something and be like I want to talk about this for 45 minutes and Jill and Chelsea being like yes, OK, yes.
Speaker 2:So what I love about it is what I love about it is how you connected it to crap. So you're not just talking about it like a fan venting, but you're talking about it like a fan venting, but then you bring it back to the writing and what works and what didn't for you and that was what you know made it so enjoyable for me. I'm glad I worked hard on that. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 4:That episode was originally a. I did a Voodoo Knots class on Southern Gothic television and so I adapted that for the podcast for um bonnie bennett interview with the vampire, all of that.
Speaker 2:So thank you, I really appreciate that yep, hey mo, hey, did you have any questions?
Speaker 7:um, well, I've had a comment. I thought it was very interesting when Jill talked about how she had a piece that sort of didn't go anywhere, or she was able to pull out a piece, you know, from a year later where we leave them half sitting. Um, or sometimes we feel like, oh well, not we. I like oh well, uh, I, this is. This is horribly written.
Speaker 7:I'm not going to do anything with this and throw it away and like you know, just I thought that was very interesting that, like you know, here's this opportunity and you're like oh, I got this whole piece already, not just like I started it, but oh, yeah, I have this, this is written. So I, you know, that was definitely stood out for me to like keep those things, you know. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 7:Like when? What's what's going to come of it? You know, and even if it's just sitting in my drive, you know, you know, for for a decade, you know, the moment I throw it away is probably the time I'm going to get a Absolutely no, definitely definitely keep all of that I will actually give you an example.
Speaker 4:My agent I had a book that I shelved almost a decade ago now, and a couple of weeks ago my agent said that she was talking to an editor who was interested in that genre, and so she asked me do you have anything in that genre? And it's a high fantasy? And I was like yes, and I was like yeah, but I haven't touched it in a decade. I showed her the pitch and a little bit of the synopsis and she was like I love this, let's try and go out with this. And this is something Like I love this, let's try and go out with this. And this is something, again, I have not touched in many, many years.
Speaker 4:And I'm now getting to revisit this story. It's really exciting and had I, you know, had I, like, thrown it away or like whatever, forgotten about it, I wouldn't have had this opportunity. But no, keep all of your projects, remember them, keep, hoard them like gold, because you never you really never know what little piece of a project you might could fit into another project or you know what kind of thing you can repurpose later. You never know. I really recommend keeping everything, and I am a big keep it. You never know, you never know.
Speaker 7:My problem is, like you know, somewhere in my 40s I became a minimalist and so I still sort of have that mentality like, oh, haven't worn it, haven't used it, haven't let it go, and so haven't time to let it go, and so I tend to sort of like let these things go so that I won't accumulate all through all this stuff. So I definitely have to like switch my mentality. When it comes to the rain, it's like it's okay to hoard, you can emotionally, let it go right.
Speaker 4:Emotionally let it go, but keep it in your drive yeah, yeah, everything has its place, yeah so just make a place for it.
Speaker 7:And then also, you know I know you guys said that you had that you guys came together as the podcast works really well because you guys were friends before you ventured into that project. How did I mean, did you guys meet through writing? Did you guys meet, like, had you just school? Like how did your relationships form? I said because one of the things that for myself and my experience is this you know, it's like we all have different tribes, right, you know. So I actually went to an MFA program because I wanted to build a tribe of writers and so Kiana and I were talking about this a little earlier. You know, it was sort of like you don't want to force relationships, but you want them because that's part of what you're here for and you may particularly want. You know, you just want to try. You want to try. So, like, how did that relationship form for you guys?
Speaker 5:So I know, for me, kale had, like the our late friend Kale Bird had a writer's group already and he found me on Twitter. I was participating in a pitch contest and he was like I love your pitch, I have this group, like come join, and I was like who is this? But I joined and it was great and to me it's kind of like, I think, also letting yourself be open to things that you might not necessarily think you'd be interested in. You can always like leave a group. You know if you join in it's not quite a right fit, but it was a great group.
Speaker 3:And I'm glad to have met my co-hosts, yeah, and there were like 40 something authors in there. I mean, there were a lot of us in there and I think it just kind of happened, naturally, where, you know, a small cluster of us began to kind of speak up a little bit more or had different, had similar things to say or, you know, got into you know innocent debates about craft stuff, right, and kind of like you know kind of to take it, take it further and have more of a discussion. And then someone was like hey, like we should have these conversations in front of other people.
Speaker 5:Yeah, there's value here. Sometimes it was like a call out for everyone in the group.
Speaker 4:I think he I think he was like hey, does anyone want to join me? And we were among those that were like, and so, um, so we were already a part of the writing the group, the writers group, and then, within the group, we were probably maybe the chattier ones and so we were like let's chat in a mic, yes, um, yeah, I, and I started, I joined the writers group through um kl had a post on twitter and he said I'm starting a writers group for black writers. And I reached out to him and I was like I want to join, can I send me a link please? And he was like and I think that was also part, probably why, like, I have all that. Yeah, be bold, guys, be bold.
Speaker 2:I really do.
Speaker 4:You never know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love that. Any more questions, you guys? Well then, I guess that means you guys are super duper thorough. Thank you so much for stopping by. Uh, we learned a lot, we had a lot of fun. It was a great conversation and I appreciate you guys. And again, jill's link is in the chat, so if you want to scroll up, you can link the dividing sky.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me. I'll uh, I'll throw my middle grade in there too.
Speaker 4:Okay, I put my um my handle for instagram.
Speaker 2:I'm most um active on instagram, so yeah, okay, same love it, love it, love it thanks, jd.
Speaker 8:That wraps up today's craft Chat Chronicles with JD Mayer. Thanks for joining us. If you liked the episode, please comment, subscribe and share. For show notes, writing workshops and tips, head to jdmayercom. That's jdmayercom. While you're there, join JD's mailing list for updates, giveaways and more.