%20(2).jpg)
Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Season 3 Episode 6: Shalini Abeysekara Guide to Thriving in the Publishing World
Ever wondered what it takes to transform rejection letters into a publishing triumph? Join us on Craft Chat Chronicles as Shalini Abeysekara shares her inspiring journey from facing countless rejections to celebrating the success of her debut novel "This Monster of Mine." Shalini unveils the secrets behind balancing a demanding legal career with her passion for writing, and offers profound advice on crafting stories that grip readers right from the first page. Learn about the pivotal moments that turned her dreams into reality and the strategies she used to nail her query letter, landing her multiple offers from literary agents.
In this episode, we also delve into the importance of staying ahead of market trends. Shalini’s insights extend to the burgeoning popularity of genres like horror romances and the critical role of captivating your audience with powerful opening lines. Further, we explore the nuances of writing realistic and engaging dialogue, enriched by concise exchanges, effective dialogue tags, and nonverbal cues that bring conversations to life. We also tackle the challenges of building and sustaining an author platform on social media, providing practical tips to maintain a consistent and engaging presence despite the obstacles.
We wrap up with an emphasis on the invaluable support of the writing community and the importance of reading broadly to refine your craft. Shalini shares her experiences with turning setbacks into motivators and the necessity of persistence in the face of rejection, offering encouragement to never give up. The episode also covers strategies for creating engaging promotional content on platforms like Bookstagram and TikTok, along with recommendations for essential resources that can aid in both writing and marketing. Tune in for a treasure trove of insights that will equip you with the tools and inspiration needed to succeed on your writing journey.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener-affiliate.html?fpr=craftchat
🎙️ Craft Chat Chronicles with J.D. Myall
Candid conversations on writing, publishing, and creative life — featuring bestselling authors, MFA students, and writers at every stage of the journey.
About J.D. Myall
J.D. Myall is the co-chair of Drexel University’s MFA Alumni Association and a publishing and library professional. She is the creator and host of Craft Chat Chronicles, where she interviews authors, agents, and industry insiders about the art and business of writing.
Her work has appeared in Ms. Magazine, Writer’s Digest, and HuffPost. Her debut novel, Heart’s Gambit, releases with Wednesday Books/Macmillan in February 2026.
When she’s not conjuring magic, murder, and mayhem on the page, J.D. mentors emerging writers through workshops and alumni programs, fostering community among aspiring and published authors alike.
💜 Connect with J.D. Myall
📸 Instagram
🌐 Website & Media Kit
💌 Newsletter
🔗 Linktree
Watch episodes on YouTube as well.
💜 Level up your writing process with Scrivener ...
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction. Here at Craft Chat Chronicles, we bring you expert interviews, insights and tips on writing, publishing and marketing. Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey. For workshops, show notes and more information, visit jdmayalcom. That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2:In season three, episode six of Craft Chat Chronicles, we talk to Shalini Abeshakara. I'm praying that I didn't butcher her name, because Shalini is such a sweet girl and such a wonderful writer. Today she's going to share her query letter with you and we're going to discuss the things about her query that works. She'll talk about writing craft and her publishing journey and share advice for aspiring authors, debuts and everything and everyone in between. So let's get chatty. Season three, episode six of Craft Chat Chronicles. So tell me a little bit about your writing and publishing journey.
Speaker 3:Right, it was, I guess, a bit of a roundabout one. So I started writing at about 17. So that was many years ago now and I attempted to query my first ever manuscript. That went about as well, as you can expect. I just got a solid round of rejections very rightfully so and it sort of made me contemplate whether this was the right choice for me. And then, about 10 years later, I go and I do the same thing again, and only this time it succeeds with a manuscript that I had been writing while working as a lawyer at the same time.
Speaker 3:And, yeah, I was very, very lucky to have started querying in about January of 2023. And my now agents, molly Jameson and Ginger Clark, picked up, picked me up in about May. So around five months later they showed interest in the manuscript and I was agented. And then we went on sub shortly afterwards, about two months afterwards, and I ended up being privileged enough to sign with, uh, with with Hotterscape for the release of my debut Romanticie, this monster of mine, uh, and with Union Square and Company in the States as well. So Hotterscape for the UK and um Union Square and Company for um, basically, uh, the US, canada, andada, and uh, north america.
Speaker 2:Really and here, so tell me about this monster of mine oh, um.
Speaker 3:So you think I would be, uh like, more on the ball with that, given how much promotional material I've been putting out on instagram. But it always gets a little strange talking about something that was in my head for so long. But it is a, it's a romanticism and um also a bit of a murder mystery, where a um, a girl who was um, pushed off a tower some four years ago and whose case was closed without justice, returns uh, four years later as a prosecutor and um is assigned to work with um, a judge whom she suspects may or may not have been her assailant and the prime suspect in a rash of murders of prosecutors going across the capital. And um, it's got. It's got a bit of everything. It is definitely a romantic on the darker side, though, so a decent amount of violence. It is also ancient rome based, and that that place it's very synonymous with violence.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love that. Can you share the query that landed you your agent and give me what you think worked about it? What you think made that one more successful than your last round of queries?
Speaker 3:I think agent maturity had a lot to do with that as well, but yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Should I share my screen with that help at all? Sure, so I can see it Okay.
Speaker 3:All right. Yeah, as you can see, there are many drafts going on over there, but this is the query that ended up getting me six offers, I believe, by the end. So that was a good feeling to know I'd done something right. So it goes, dear agent, I'm thrilled to bring you my 105 000 word, uh, young adult at the time, uh, roman inspired fantasy romance with crossover appeal. This monster of mine, blending courtroom drama, the murder mystery of down comes the night by allison saft and the enemies to lovers, romance of carrie menescalco's kingdom of the wicked. It celebrates a quiet but dangerous heroine of color with ptsd and examines legal injustice, the monsters behind it and the monsters they create.
Speaker 3:Um 18 year old, sarai knows the taste of death. Four years ago she was found horribly injured at the bottom of a tower. With only one memory of how she got there she knows she was pushed, investigators held that she jumped and her case was closed without justice. In the present, sarah hides her identity and returns to the scene of the crime. As a predator prosecutor who can magically detect lies Her goal To secretly investigate her near-death and ruin the man responsible. Vengeance seems at hand when she's selected to work for the coalition of judges who rule the land, until she's assigned to the youngest and most dangerous judge, kadra, whose voice matches her only memory of her assailant, ice-cold and perennially sadistic.
Speaker 3:Kadra channels both biases into raising corruption. His preferred methods Burnings and beheadings. So the entire country is bewildered when he invites Syrah to live with him while she acclimates to the job. Desperate for evidence against him, syrah agrees and begins a double life, solving cases with Khadra by day and searching his home at night. Yet every case highlights the judiciary's corruption in comparison to Khadra's vicious justice Worse. A dangerous mutual attraction brews between them as Sarah questions if she has the right men. But the judiciary is keeping secrets. Petitors fall from towers in the dead of night, whispers a band of a killer among the judges and Sarai starts to wonder whether Kadra is keeping her by his side to protect her or prey on her. As evidence mounts on both sides of the scale and fear runs rampant as to who the next dead peditor will be, sarai must distinguish monster from madman and lie from lover, or choose the one person.
Speaker 2:No one saw justice for herself and the rest is just like my bio and housekeeping I love that there are so many hooks in there that I think are what worked for you. Um, like I love the legal thriller with a woman of color. You don't see that a lot. I love the that she's got the love interest that could potentially be the killer. There's just so much in there. I can see why you had so many offers. How did that feel this time compared to last time to have so much interest?
Speaker 3:Honestly amazing. I think the whole reason it took so long to even try again was that the first round was very disheartening. I mean hopefully so it was genuinely it was. It was not my best work, but, um, it really did encourage me to put my best foot forward this time there you go.
Speaker 2:When you got your author from your agent, how did that go? Did she send you an email first? Did you guys just initially? Did she call you? How did it work out?
Speaker 3:uh, yeah, it molly sent me an email at first and, um, we just sort of scheduled a time to chat. I wasn't sure if this was going to be an offer. It was just, you know, like it was an email, more to chat. And, yeah, she offered during that chat and it sort of ended up being a whirlwind right after because of notifying all the other agents whom I had queried that there was interest, and then things just really moved very quickly over the next two weeks.
Speaker 2:How did you decide to pick her as opposed to the other people who showed interest?
Speaker 3:So I was in an interesting situation where, after Molly showed um, um, I reached out to other agents, one of whom was ginger, uh, ginger, clark and um, she reached back to me, along with molly, saying they realized they both read the same book and would be interested in co-representing uh me across, um, both sides of the Atlantic. So Molly would sort of would focus more on things that are UK and Commonwealth based and Ginger would focus on, you know, the US, north America, that the Atlantic side of things, unless I'm getting my oceans mixed up. But yeah, um and um, I think I. From that point it was pretty clear that I was going to go with the two of them, not just, you know, the two heads being better than one sort of thing. But their vision for the book was so clear cut and they were as enthusiastic about it everyone was pretty enthusiastic about it. But something just clicked with Molly and Ginger.
Speaker 3:It was just because it's not I feel like it's not so much um, an agent, that it's not so much that I was looking for an agent that would represent me and my career, but an agent that would also understand how I worked. I feel like that was really, really important to me. I'm a pretty anxious person and so I wanted someone who I wanted to work with, people who would understand that I will panic over the smallest things. I won't like send emails or mass bother people, but someone who would be like, okay, this is normal, like someone who was steadfast, reassuring and Molly and Ginger are absolutely that in space, in addition to being incredible Asians. So, yeah, it was a pretty easy decision at that point I ended up being on sub, I think for about three weeks, three to, let's see, july 26 and oh yeah, so it ended up.
Speaker 3:it's interesting because I guess the entire process took three weeks, but I suppose technically I was on sub for maybe a week. Um, because we sent it off by j 26th and we got our first offer on August 2nd it was my birthday. So I remember that very clearly and, and yeah, and by the time the auction came and went it was late August. I think about August 28th is the day that keeps coming to my head. So, yeah, I'd say about three to four weeks in total for everything to solidify.
Speaker 2:The auction process go. I mine was preempt. I didn't get to experience the auction fund.
Speaker 3:How did that go? Yeah, it was. It was, I believe it was a rolling auction. Um, there were two other publishers who were showing interest and it was just for two weeks. Afterwards we would say, okay, like this is the deadline. My agents would say, um, this is the deadline for offers, and I got to meet and chat with the editors of each of the publishing houses. So that was really, really exciting. And and then at the end of it it was similar to like going with an agent. It was. It was similar, very similar to that in the sense of having to pick which editor I thought would be great for book, but also which one I would thought I would work with best, and, um, yeah, I, I would say, auction-wise, it was just mainly a process of meeting with the editors, getting to really know them and just sort of sitting and waiting as offers just came in and hoping that you would vibe really well with the person behind it, which I'm very lucky to have vibed very well with Kayla and Molly, my editors.
Speaker 2:And how did the editor call it though?
Speaker 3:I really didn't know what to ask at the time. I was very new to the whole thing. I never really thought I would get this far. So I turned to Reddit and got a whole list of questions, of things to ask, you know, like what the, what their vision for the book was, um, what they thought, what they would change, um, etc. And it went just really fantastically well.
Speaker 3:It's something that I will probably never forget and I think was the deciding factor um with my deciding to work with Kayla Singleton of Hotterscape was when it came down to um, hotterscape and PMJ Penguin, michael Joseph, um, they both sent letters over to sort of sum up their position and like help me make a decision, and they were like the sweetest things. I still have them. Um. But Kayla's was in Khajra's colors. So in this monster of mine, each judge sort of has their own set of colors that they have on their robes, on their insignia, on everything, and hers and her letter was in Cadre's colors, which is black and gold, and I just remember reading that and thinking this is it like she really cares about this book and like it was? It was just an emotional feeling seeing how much she cared about it and how much she was prepared to um advocate for it and bring it, bring out the very best in it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I love that and I love that you were prepared for yours. I interviewed people all the time and I was so nervous I froze like a deer in headlights.
Speaker 2:Thank god, um, suzy townsend, the agent was on the call because she took up the slack when I was just like but you know you dream of it, you work toward it and then, when you get to the moment, it was just like oh God, I froze for like three minutes and she did the talking. And then I was like hey, I'm back now. Hopefully they didn't notice they probably did, it was very noticeable they're probably just used to it's.
Speaker 3:It's basically being starstruck. I feel like they're probably used to us just freezing up in front of them going oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm here, pinch me.
Speaker 2:The pinch me moment always comes during the call, for some reason not afterwards and then all the questions I had in my head flew out during the freezing. So then I came back like just an anxious ball of that's good, that's exciting. How's your debut experience been so far?
Speaker 3:oh fantastic, it's um, it's wild because there'll be months and stretches where not much is happening. You're sort of waiting on copy edits or an edit letter or past pages, which is what I'm doing now. I'm just waiting on past pages. And then there are months when everything is happening. You know, it's like okay, um, back copy, okay, um, like dedications, acknowledgement. I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, everything's happening right now. Cover draft. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, have you seen cover draft so far? Yeah, yeah, I'm very, I'm very excited. Oh, yay, so you like them. That's good. Did you have? How much input did you have in your cover? Did they like?
Speaker 3:have you do the proposal for it and stuff. Um, I, I put up an interest like a pinterest board which was very it. It was too much fun. I just had way too much fun going on there and just sort of hitting every image I see and, yeah, like the result was very close to what was going on in my very wacky Pinterest board. So in that sense, yeah, that was my input. I feel like if I had to sit down and write something for the graphics team, it would just be like a slew of words. I'm very glad I got to send that in visually.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Is there anything that you wish you had have done differently in your journey so far?
Speaker 3:That's a good question, I guess, journey wise, I wish I hadn't waited so long to query again. I guess failure hits hard when you're young and that's really what it felt like to me Not succeeding my first time around, which, looking back, is so silly. You know, there are authors who have tried over and over again for years and I just took a 10 month, 10 year break because what my feelings were hurt when I was 18. If there was, yeah, anything I could go back and tell myself it's for heaven's sake, just keep going. Yeah, that's the number one thing I would tell myself.
Speaker 2:What do you think you did right that helped you break in and become a publishing outlist?
Speaker 3:Ooh, I think it was really looking at what the market was like, looking at what, looking explicitly at what agents said that they wanted, and really taking the time to understand the reading landscape.
Speaker 3:You know, when you're, when you're 17 and 18, and, like I, had a single brain cell bouncing around my head you just think, okay, yeah, I know, I know better. This is going to be the next greatest thing. It's not. And taking all those years to sit back and read and not just read as a reader, but read as an author and see what other authors are doing and just how incredible and talented they are, and write from a place of joy and delighting in creation, but also from a place of just um. Being, like, more humble and understanding what readers like, what readers enjoy, I think was the biggest thing for me, because before I was just writing honestly, whatever the heck I wanted, without any regard for is this even sellable? Whereas now, being more conscious of the market and, um, not, not, which doesn't necessarily mean writing to market, but being more conscious of what trends are and, um, focusing on what I like within what is popular, has really really helped me I love that.
Speaker 2:So in doing that, focusing on what you like and what's popular what trend do you think you want to play with next?
Speaker 3:horror. I would have never expected myself to say that, even like two years back, but, um, I'm loving, and the sort of horror romances, horror sci-fi romances that we're getting these days, it's fascinating. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 2:How do you hook readers on the very first page of a novel?
Speaker 3:I always try to start off with the first line that makes people want to keep reading. Tiktok and Instagram have destroyed my attention span completely, and so I always try to focus on what will make someone stop scrolling. So we'll make them stop and stare just for a second to read the next line and the next and the next. And making people stop doesn't necessarily have to be a line that, um, excites them. It could be a line that frightens them, that shocks them, that just makes them more curious, um, anything to just sort of make them say maybe I want to see what's coming next. And so I usually go for something that's relatively short, relatively punch punchy, and tries to stick in the reader's head as much as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can you give me an example of a first?
Speaker 3:move, mm-hmm. So the first line of the prologue of this Monster of Mine is my Word. Document likes to load. Um is right, is the girl was still alive when he returned with a tablecloth that used to dispose of her. And um, so, and especially given that it's a murder mystery, my, my hope is that people go. Okay, well then, and keep going, but, um, so that was for the prologue, but for chapter one, I tried to keep, try to keep it even shorter, and it's just most days, all sarah I could see was blood and it's like that very good, very good.
Speaker 2:And what do you think are the essential elements of a good first page?
Speaker 3:This one's hard.
Speaker 3:I feel like there's so many, there's so many great ways to start a novel.
Speaker 3:I mean, if you're starting in the middle of action, I mean in media res, is always a very popular way to go, so that can hook a reader immediately. But I think what a first page to me as a reader, what a good first page looks like, is something that, something that evokes a sense of the world and a sense of the character. That doesn't necessarily have to provide a lot of detail on both, but provides a fully formed snapshot of the sort of ride that we're in for, um, sort of like the opening scene of a movie, where you see setting, you see character, you see, um, you might even have a little bit of dialogue and you get enough action for people to settle in their seat and go okay, um, so something cohesive, uh, like that, I think, is important for a first page, rather than you know we need to know everything about the character up front, or everything about the world up front, or we need to immediately jump into action. To me, a snapshot of what we're facing is very is keeping me interested, at any rate.
Speaker 2:And how do you avoid the saggy middle? Some people say soggy. I like saggy I don't know, it works.
Speaker 3:Either way, they're both laden under the weight of something. But, um, I am a very detailed plotter and and so I'm one of those. It's actually terrible, but I'm one of those writers who cannot write a zero draft to save myself. I simply cannot. You know, I'll, I'll, I'll write a chapter and then, instead of writing next, I go back and over edit the chapter for maybe like a good week, and even then I'll write the next chapter, and I'll still go back and over edit the chapter for maybe like a good week, and even then I'll write the next chapter and I'll still go back to that first chapter and I'll still keep over editing that over and over again, and I'll do that every. I'll do that for every single chapter I write. I mean, like right now I'm in the middle of chapter eight, and when I'm writing and guess who was editing chapter one again yesterday.
Speaker 3:So, um, but I find that that really helps me avoid the middle, because by the time I reach the middle, I've gone back and edited that first chapter so many times that, um, I've built up to exactly what is coming and, um, I know exactly where it's heading. Um, I think, plotting wise, what helps me, um. So even before I get to writing plotting wise, what helps me avoid the saggy middle is, um, I usually try to have some sort of either reversal or just some really big event occur. I follow I tend to follow like the save the cat beat sheet a lot when it comes to writing. That's um, and having something huge happen at the midpoint is some of my favorite things to do in writing, and it helps me avoid the middle because I'm consciously building up to something at the midpoint and then, past the midpoint, you're dealing with the consequences, the fallout of what has happened at that midpoint, and that, to me, helps prevent some of the bloat and the loss of action that can occur.
Speaker 2:Love that, love that, love that. And I too constantly go back over my first. But the first chapter is so important. If you don't get them there, they won't read the whole book. So any tips for compelling endings?
Speaker 3:Um, I think it really depends on the on the vibe that you're going for with your ending. Um, I've seen compelling endings that are extremely sad, extremely bittersweet or thought-provoking. I mean, my, my favorite go-to is is inception and the way that ends, and you're just sort of left wondering, and any sort of ending, in my view, that can leave people with strong emotions is a compelling ending. I know there's a lot of qualitative reasoning there on, you know, if it's rage bait, do rage bait novels count as good endings? But perhaps not good, but they'd be compelling. And so I think what would make a compelling ending is is something that evokes such a strong sense of emotion in the reader that long after closing your book, they're they're still thinking about it, they're upset or they're excited or they're brimming with ideas or hope or, um, they want the next book immediately because it was a cliffhanger. So, yeah, I think that anything that keeps the reader coming back for more is compelling love that, love that, love that.
Speaker 2:What do you wish? You knew when you were just starting out that you've learned now.
Speaker 3:I think something that I wish I'd known throughout the querying and going on sub and even part of the publishing process, is that your novel is going to change throughout the process and not necessarily in a. You know. Oh, traditional publishing makes you alter your novel sort of way, but in a, it's reaching it's, it's becoming its highest self, sort of way. I've discovered just how little I knew about editing a scene and I've learned so much from my editors on tighter dialogue, tighter world building, storytelling. I think there's almost a tendency of, especially for me when I was on on sub, when I'd finally gotten, when I finally signed with Molly and Ginger, that, okay, this book is as good as it's gonna get it's. You know, this is it, this is, um, the book that got me an agent.
Speaker 3:And then, you see it, I ended up rewriting about, I'd say, 60% of my book and it just like chapters got shuffled around here and there and it is so much better for it and I could have never conceived of that on my own.
Speaker 3:So I think if I were really really attached to the idea of what I wanted this book to be, maybe I would have sort of had strong feelings about it. But honestly, it's so perfect now that when I look back at the old drafts, I'm just kind of like, did this girl just not see how much better things could be that? Yeah, I think you hear so much, especially on Twitter, on social media platforms, on how much your book is going to change during the publishing process and how social media platforms on how much your book is going to change during the publishing process and how discomforting and awkward that can be. But I think what I wish I'd known was that it's not as scary as it's made out to be. It's it, it's. It can be such a helpful, such an amazing process that brings out the very, very best in your book.
Speaker 2:So I was really anxious for nothing and how many revisions did you do with your editor?
Speaker 3:um, I'd say about three. It was almost like a two and a half sort of situation where we just had like one last little tweak of the a few little tweaks at the end. So about three, yeah, okay, that's good. What makes a good villain or antagonist very compelling? Because you can, you can see where they were so close to the light, so to speak, before they just veered off and and sort of went mental. Um, and I think, especially nowadays in tv, there's um and and reflected in books as well. There's so much more nuance in what makes a hero and what makes a villain, and that provides a very compelling playground for writers to play in in terms of what morality looks like as displayed in in in our characters, and so I'm trying not to give away anything about my book right now. Oh, in terms of spoilers, uh, because a compelling villain is is one who you also cannot help, but whom you're torn between detesting and empathizing with at the same time, and that can be in a variety you you know, in a variety of senses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Do you have any tips on world building?
Speaker 3:Ooh, my favorite tip, Um, my favorite tip for for world building is um is um. Well, first one is sprinkle it in. I I suffered from the tendency of explain everything up front as much as possible so that going through the rest of the novel the reader will not be confused. No, the reader is confused. You've dumped a whole brick on them and they're not going to remember it for the next few chapters. And so I'm a huge, huge proponent nowadays of just sprinkle in things the reader needs to know, as they need to know them, and keep reinforcing your world building in subsequent chapters. That's something that I've really come to understand that just because you say X is Y in one chapter does not mean that the reader who has a life is going to put down the book, is going to go do some chores you know and then come back to it maybe a day later. They're not going to remember what that world building point in the previous chapter is. So reinforce as much as possible. And so that would be for, I guess, writing world building.
Speaker 3:But for the actual act of world building, my favorite tip ever is play a video game.
Speaker 3:Always, it's always gonna be my favorite tip, because these worlds in video games, especially single player games, they're constructed from the ground up Everything, from the landscape, the buildings, the vegetation, the economics, the currency, the goods, and you can trade the weapons.
Speaker 3:Everything is constructed from the ground up in a lot of these cases and it's just a treasure trove of. It's like a textbook on how to world build. You know, you see how people, uh, how the um gaming developers, game developers have created entire worlds out of very um, altered modern landscapes and and it's fascinating to see just how much you know you can stretch a single object into various different shapes and sizes. Like I have so many examples in my head, so many video games in my head, but weapons are a classic one for me, and when you see how they do it especially because video games tend to rely so much on lore and you look deep into the, the economics, the uh, politics of how video games construct things from the ground up, it becomes so much easier to envision your world and to ask yourself the same questions that these developers were asking themselves when they were building these worlds, and I feel like the world ends up a lot richer, the world of your book ends up a lot richer for doing that.
Speaker 2:Love that, love that. Any tips on dialogue? You said you learned a lot about dialogue in this process.
Speaker 3:I did. Yes, specifically, dialogue tags the bane of my existence, but uh, so I'm, I watch a lot of tv and so I tend to try to make my dialogue as realistic. As you know, as realistic as possible. I'd always try to imagine someone saying it, and if it just sounds hokey then I don't go for it. But I think, um, conversations that could can sort of play back and forth on screen do not really translate well on the page when readers are really tired of people talking about the same thing for a whole page.
Speaker 3:And so, um, knowing how to convey as much information as the reader needs in order for the scene to progress, and as much information as the reader needs in order for the scene to progress, and as much information as the characters need in order for the scene to progress, while keeping things as tight as possible, is absolutely a skill that I, that I learned from my editors to keep things short, keep things snappy while building enough in, and using dialogue tags as a way of building in more information, um, I found was just crucial to elevating my abilities, uh, my writing abilities, for sure. Um, moving from things, like you know, she shrieked, she screamed to to actively interacting with the environment, having the characters perform motions as they're speaking, and even having those nonverbal actions be a part of the conversation and the interplay between the characters, and that's, yeah, absolutely something I learned from amazing editors love that, love that.
Speaker 2:What steps have you taken so far to build your author platform?
Speaker 3:oh boy um it never feels like it's enough, really. But, um, I post reels on instagram and on TikTok and even on YouTube every every day. Um, it is good at those reels too. They're cute, I wish.
Speaker 2:I was that creative with reels.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, thank you so much. I I've been learning from, like a lot of other other writers on Instagram, because I have no idea what I'm doing half the time and you know it's hard because you think you've made something halfway decent and then you look at the reach on it and you go, oh well, right, um I, uh. Yes, posting one reel a day or alternating with um photo posts, especially camera posts, is what I've been trying to do, like everything from you know, convincing you to read my book in five seconds to um most recent one I did was my book as muffins.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I love that. How did you think of that where? Do you come up with the ideas.
Speaker 3:Those are clever oh, um, honestly, I just started with a question that Rachel found on Instagram another fellow debut 2025 author, also Canadian. She just asked me what would your main character's favorite cookies be? And that just sort of snowballed in my head to my characters as muffins and went ahead from there. Yeah, I've done my book as lipsticks, I've done, I am, I am going, I'm gonna have to start moving on to ikea furniture at this point, but, um, it's very hard. It's, it's significantly harder than I thought. Um, building a brand across platforms, but consistency and even content quality is not necessarily a guarantee of followers or even ads on Goodreads, and so that's been something that I'm still trying to wrap my head around.
Speaker 2:Do you have any tips for making videos and promotional content for social media?
Speaker 3:for authors Ooh, yeah, I would say if spend a lot of time on Bookstagram, because it's good to see what other people are doing, and then sort of taking that and seeing what you can do with it and what ideas you can bring to the table, it is really fun to run with the ideas that you have and sort of go wild and have fun and get a bit hokey with it. But I also discovered you can get as hokey as you want but if it isn't what people are used to seeing, they don't care. So try to see what the mold is like and then get a bit hokey within the mold and, um, a lot of it is less subtle than I thought. So when I first started making these videos I was. I was thinking, okay, I can't be blatant and in your face about it. Maybe I just do like little skits, maybe I just do um little uh videos where I just talk about the, the plot of my book or the, um, what the male main character is like. And I've discovered since um, over the I think it's been about over four months that I've been doing this every day um, that you actually you do have to get a bit blatant with the, with the advertising be like convincing you to read my book in 10 seconds. Just get it out, get it in your face.
Speaker 3:If you try to be very overly subtle in your advertising, people have no idea what you want from them. Do you want to like? Do you want to comment? What do you want? And, um, I feel like the second. I just got a lot more. This is my book, I'm I'm promoting it. Please add it on goodreads or pre-order if you'd like. Was when I really actually started to see my engagement go up a bit more, because people are like okay, I know what you want from me, I understand this, I love that what websites, classes, tools or organizations have helped you reach your publishing and writing and promotional goals?
Speaker 3:For sure, I use Save the Cat a lot lot. Save the cat writes a novel um that structure, especially with the examples that I'm I really don't want to mess up the author's name I feel like it's jessica and just googling it right now because I do not want to mess up the most seminal book that helped me, right. Yeah, jessica brody's um save the cat writes a novel, like all the examples she provides of um character art and uh plot arc. She uses, you know, the hunger games a few times as well, and really working back and deconstructing those novels deconstructing um other novels I've read and tv shows that I've read and seeing how they play with that structure has been absolutely, absolutely similar. I I would not have been able to write without it and um uh.
Speaker 3:Another book that I sort of consider my my little uh bible over when I was writing my debut was um emily theeds and this vicious grace. I think it was released in 2021. Uh, it was a. It's a young adult fantasy novel and I I constantly referred to that book. You know what she was doing with scene structure, with dialogue, with exposition, with um pacing.
Speaker 3:I yeah, that that book was my bible when I was writing this, uh, this master of mine, absolutely, um, what else I am? I don't know if they're still offering it, but, um, this is why I wrote this book while I was working as a lawyer and, um, one of the banks over here in Canada, the Royal Bank of Canada they were offering like about a $1,500 bursary I think it was a grant to people who were looking to switch their careers and sort of invest in material that would allow them to make that switch, and so I was very lucky to be a recipient of that and thank you. Yeah, I put it really. I put it all towards a publisher's marketplace, uh, subscription and um query tracker and, um, what else did I put it towards? Um, oh yes, um masterclass, um subscription because, um, a lot of really amazing authors had videos with tips on how to write better and I would just constantly go back and forth over over those videos and, yeah, that was that was about it what programs do you use to make your videos and your marketing stuff?
Speaker 3:So I primarily I film directly on TikTok or to help you boost your engagement which is why I do it and so film directly on there. They also. There's also this app called CapCut, which is owned by the same company that owns TikTok, and so sometimes I'll piece together clips in there. If I film, if I ever film, outside of TikTok, then you use CapCut to edit or I'll film within TikTok, do all my editing and everything within there, and then when I post, I have it set to save that video to my phone without the logo automatically and then I just upload that same video on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Cool, cool, cool. I didn't even know you could do that in TikTok. You can tell I don't use TikTok. I think I have one, but I don't think I ever posted anything on it. I think I made one, though, but you know.
Speaker 3:It's rough. I only started. I got TikTok and started using it in May of this year and um, it's addictive. Yeah, I've learned a lot about the world from TikTok I.
Speaker 3:I can see why I didn't get it earlier, but at the same time, I'm so glad I have it now now um what's up next for you um, a lot of writing, I think, because I've been working on a prequel to my debut, not one that's, you know, contracted for or anything, but there's a little story that I mentioned in Chapter 17 of my debut, and it was a story that I was writing before I was writing my debut, and before that my debut strolled into my head fully formed, and I thought it'd be a good idea to write that. Now, that's actually what you've been, the first chapter of, what you read, yeah, and so Everybody's in for a treat.
Speaker 3:I'm glad, I'm so glad you're like, yeah, I'm like focused on wrapping that up and then finishing the book two to my debut, which I'm contracted for, and then after that, yeah, I just have a whole host of ideas and we'll see where it goes. I'm very lucky to be able to do this full time and so just sitting down and getting all the ideas out you never know, I think, how long a career in the arts can last and my, my hope is to get you know as many of my very, very spooky ideas out in the world for as long as I can okay, what does a typical day look like for you?
Speaker 3:oh, uh, like, I'll wake up and I'll do all my real posting while still in bed and, you know, interact with other people's content, just just see what other people are up to, and just like, build community, I guess for about two hours, because I really can't stop. And then, um, you know, then the usual stuff chores, uh, meals then I just sit down for writing and, uh, try to get as much done as possible. I'll usually average between, like there'll be days when I write for, you know, sometimes eight or nine hours straight, and then there'll be days when I sit down to write and I'll get maybe 30 minutes in and I'll just goof off the rest of the time. So they balance out pretty evenly.
Speaker 3:But I'd say the common thread throughout all my days is looking for ways to learn. Even if I watch a TV show, I'm like what can I take away from this? If it was bad, why was it bad? What did not connect? Know if it was bad, why was it bad? What did not connect? And if it was excellent, okay, what? What are they doing that I can then use when writing and um. So I think developing a sense of um, where trends are headed um, is a big part of my day, as well as, in addition to writing and filming, filming videos, yeah love, that love that because I saw your announcement.
Speaker 3:I think was it two weeks ago. Time is a blur was it two weeks ago. I think it was a week or two weeks ago. I still have a part-time job.
Speaker 2:By the way, um, don't tell them I I know you won't, but I'm not always a good employee. I work at a library and when we're seated at the desk, I'm writing. I'm writing my stuff at work.
Speaker 3:Well, it is a place of books.
Speaker 2:It makes perfect sense, exactly. And then when a customer comes up to me, I keep my good customer service, but in my head I'm like wow, like I was in the middle of a great scene. Why are you? But outwards, I'm like I'll be with you as soon as I can. How could I help you, dear? What do you need?
Speaker 3:well, soon, you know, your book will be gracing the shelves of that library. So it it does pay off, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'd be exciting and and they're excited about it too like, like my boss emailed everybody the book announcement and stuff like that. I think she secretly knows that I sneak and write, but I think she's excited about it, so she gives that to me because you can't do it all the time. When you're at the front desk, for example, we're busy, but like at the little adult and children section, where it's a little slower, I sneak and write. I actually also snuck in line edit well, not line edit, but left a few comments in your chapter there, too, I was at work.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, this is good. Okay, so what advice do you have for aspiring authors? Or, actually, let's start with advice for debuts, and then we'll go to smarter authors.
Speaker 3:Advice for debuts.
Speaker 3:It feels wild to be giving a given that I feel like I'm floundering a lot of the time, but my biggest advice is, I guess, going and getting to know other authors Genuinely, like make friends, like publishing is such a lonely endeavor, endeavor you know you're writing on your own, you're editing on your own, you have you know you have your agents and you have your editor.
Speaker 3:But unless you know you're lucky enough to see them frequently or live in the same city as them or something you, it's just you, and you know your, your choice of word processor, typing away. And so it's so important to connect with other people who are in the same boat as you and who will really get you, because it is hard to explain to people with more traditional jobs what your day looks like and why you might be panicking over a draft cover or upset over the fact that a chapter is just not coming out, even though you have it in your head, and those are parts of work that will not make sense to a lot of people. And so building community, I think is is so necessary for your own mental health and having support to lean on and and to be able to help others who are going through exactly what you are going through would be my biggest yeah, my words for debut authors all right and advice for aspiring authors who want to be in your debuting shoes um, um, I was speaking with um, an upcoming debut author.
Speaker 3:I think you can believe she is a 2026 debut called julia alexander. Um, it's pretty incredible, and we were discussing this and, um, a lot of writers really do dream about this for for a time, and it's a hard road. I recently saw stats that they're saying it's only six per thousand people who query, who get agented, which is insane, and so my biggest advice would be read as widely as you can and learn to read like a writer. And it's going to be so hard because a pastime that you used to take um, that you used to see as a hobby and you used to see as a method of relaxation, is now more a method of study and um, that can. That can take away some of the um, turn off my brain and just relax aspect from it, because you'll see lines, you'll see character arcs, you'll see specific scenes that make you go, oh my gosh, this is brilliant. Oh yeah, this is how the story structure is working over here, and that can take you out of it, out of the world for a moment and you don't get to fully disconnect the way you want to world for a moment and you don't get to fully disconnect the way you want to. But, um, it's so necessary to look at media analytically and the little bits and pieces that it's that they're made of, in order for you to use those same building blocks to build your worlds.
Speaker 3:And, um, I think, even for I think a lot of aspiring writers can tend to not want that part, not to dislike that part of the process and I mean rightfully so you're, you're, you're, you're losing a little bit of that hobby in that sense. But, um, it's so, it's. It's so necessary to getting to where you want to be, because it's once you have an idea and an and a relative good grasp of structure, character, plotline, storyline, your work is going to be so stunning. And the thing about stunning work is, even if one agent says it's not for them, there is going to be an agent who looks at it and says, oh yeah, no, I want that, I really need that, and I had 118 rejections before I signed with my current two agents. And so it goes to show that even work that ends up getting picked up on sub later on can be rejected. Work that ends up getting picked up on sub later on can be rejected.
Speaker 3:And so I think my second piece of advice to aspiring writers is when you're querying and you see those rejections come in and they will, they will come in. Um, I'm yet to meet an author who never got rejected once. But um, keep going and don't pull the plug just yet. Um, five months of rejections is a lot. It's nothing compared to what some other authors have been through, with years and years of rejections. But all you need is just one yes, and once you have that, congrats, you're in right. But if you pull the plug too soon before you get to that yes, you'll never know whether you could have gotten it.
Speaker 2:So keep going, keep going and keep studying I love that, but you know what's funny about once you know story structure and stuff like that, you're miserable to watch tv and movies with. My kids hate watching shows because I know story structure. And then I see the little dots and I'm like, oh, I know where they're going with this. This person's gonna that, and then they're like she ruined it again. Yeah, no, absolutely yeah, how you would have written it exactly that's so true, but my boyfriend says the same thing.
Speaker 3:I'll watch him and I'll just go.
Speaker 2:I know that's the villain and then he'll go that's terrible, like don't tell me that, and so when they give you like the warm moments of reflection or more backstory of the character than normal in a show, you're like, oh, they're about to kill them off. They're trying to connect so they can step through the dagger in our hearts.
Speaker 3:Someone makes a promise I'll be there for sure. I'm like he's dead.
Speaker 2:He's not going to be there at all. Awesome, awesome, awesome, as always. You know, it was fabulous. Have a great day. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much. I appreciate you making the time as well. Yeah, we'll definitely talk soon.
Speaker 4:That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD Mayer. J's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD Mayor. Thanks for joining us. If you liked the episode, please comment, subscribe and share. For show notes, writing workshops and tips, head to jdmayorcom. That's jdmayorcom. While you're there, join JD's mailing list.