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Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Season 2 Episode 3: From Ghostwriter to Debut Novel Success: Veronica Bane's Journey
Discover the secrets behind captivating storytelling with debut author Veronica Bane in this episode of Craft Chat Chronicles. Veronica shares her inspiring transition from ghostwriting in adult romance to unveiling her young adult debut novel, "Difficult Girls." She opens up about the challenges and triumphs of balancing her writing career with her role as a high school English and creative writing teacher. Through her journey, you'll gain valuable insights into the competitive world of publishing and learn why following your passion is more rewarding than chasing market trends.
Join us as we dissect the art of character development and maintaining tension throughout a novel. Using examples like "The Hunger Games," we explore how to create multi-dimensional villains and keep readers hooked from the first page to the last. Veronica also offers practical advice on outlining, especially for those with ADHD, and the importance of letting drafts sit before editing to gain a fresh perspective. If you're looking to enhance your writing skills, this episode is packed with tips and techniques that will take your storytelling to the next level.
Finally, Veronica shares her deeply personal journey of writing through grief after the loss of her mom, and how it reshaped her creative process. We discuss the emotional rollercoaster of post-book release and the significance of community support for debut authors. Tune in to discover strategies for successful promotions, networking, and celebrating the milestones of your writing journey. Don't forget to check out our website for additional resources like show notes, writing workshops, and exclusive tips, and join our mailing list for updates and giveaways.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction. Here at Craft Chat Chronicles, we bring you expert interviews, insights and tips on writing, publishing and marketing. Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey. For workshops, show notes and more information, visit jdmayacom.
J.D. Myall:That's jdmaylcom In season two, episode three of Craft Chat Chronicles. We have debut author Veronica Bain. Veronica is going to be telling you a little bit about the debut experience, her publishing journey and her new novel, difficult Girls. It'll be a fun chat. Thanks for joining us for Season 2, episode 3 of Craft Chat Chronicles.
Veronica Bane:Oh, sorry, I'm popping on my headphones. I was like those will probably help with background noise. Thank you for doing this today. I know it was kind of at the last moment, you're fine.
J.D. Myall:Tell me about when you're writing journey and all that good stuff.
Veronica Bane:Yeah. So I announced my young adult debut novel yesterday and I'm so excited. I've been keeping that secret since December and I'm not a great secret keeper I'm not a terrible one, but I'm not a great one. So I have been writing since I mean professionally for I think the last seven to eight years I've done mostly ghost writing, primarily for adult romance, but for other genres as well, and I just love writing. So just kind of doing whatever job I was able to do that was writing adjacent. I'm also a high school English teacher and I also teach creative writing at the high school I work at. And I'm also a high school English teacher and I also teach creative writing at the high school I work at. And I'm just really excited to see this journey come to fruition after many, many years.
J.D. Myall:To put your mind at ease, I've never talked to a debut and it's actually their first novel. Everybody like Yili Siegel in her book I'm not dying with you tonight Got an NAACP image award nomination. Beth New York times bestseller yeah, and she was 10 books in. Yeah, her debut was announced.
Veronica Bane:I don't necessarily believe everything happens for a reason, but I think for my journey, everything happened for a reason. With this specific journey, timing I'm I feel really lucky that the timing worked out the way that it did, but it was a weird, um, you know, seven or eight years of ghost writing, of just being like, oh it's, it's really not me, but it is me.
J.D. Myall:this is weird now what I think it is is I think that I think a lot of new authors go in with blinders on because they don't realize that like it's more competitive than professional sports yeah, it's like just getting published.
Veronica Bane:Getting a book deal is like making it to the olympics yeah, catch yourself in the back, doesn't matter when you do it that's a phenomenal feat that a lot of people, unfortunately, will never experience.
J.D. Myall:You know what I mean yeah, no, it's my students.
Veronica Bane:I tell them as one of my fun facts at the beginning of the year that I ghost write, and obviously I don't say who for NDAs. But they're like why don't you just write your own book? As if the thought has not. They're like you should just write your own with your own name. I'm like yeah, I know.
J.D. Myall:And then with like Working on it Exactly, and then like, first you have to get the skill level up because it is so competitive, but then once you get the skill level up, it's still market is a big thing. So you know, if you're writing awesome historicals and this is at a time when historicals aren't moving much, yeah, you know it's still hard.
Veronica Bane:Yeah, 100 percent. You know it's still hard, yeah, 100%. I've been popping over to Twitter and all of them and I can see the middle grade discourse is running. It's so interesting to see everyone saying middle grade is, you know, dead, middle grade is not selling. And I feel like a few years ago the advice was oh, everyone should try to get into middle grade because it's the only genre or not genre, but age range that's selling and that's guaranteed to always sell. And it's just like, yeah, you know, the advice of yesterday is not necessarily the advice of tomorrow, so you've got to just write what you love and hope that the market aligns yeah, I feel like, with the market.
J.D. Myall:That's a tricky thing too, because I couldn't even like advice to new writers and say chase the market, because the market changes. Yeah, what you're writing today won't be a factor two years from now.
Veronica Bane:Yeah, 100%, it's a journey, and any, and it also takes. I mean, I'm a fairly quick writer, but even a fairly quick writer, by the time you finish that draft it's you know, there's no guarantee, and even if I think of that writer, that, um, right after Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey came out as a couple tried to publish their uh, taylor Swift Travis Kelsey book and then immediately it got taken down Cause I'm sure Ms Swift sued. It's like, even if you can take advantage of the market, you can't. Really Well, and I apologize if I sound a little congested, I'm getting over COVID, of course, but um, but yeah, so I apologize if I sound a little under the weather.
J.D. Myall:You don't sound fine.
Veronica Bane:Or maybe it just adds to my allure.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, there you go. So let's go back to your publishing journey. Yes, so how did you come across? How did you get into ghostwriting? How did you start that path?
Veronica Bane:I just made sure I let my agent know I'm available for any and all opportunities. I want to write whatever that looks like and I I had she had my manuscript and that was used as a as a sample to pitch me for jobs. But I I just made myself available and I've had a few people ask me how do I get into ghostwriting? And it is such a reference based part of the industry that I feel like there are. There are people who post themselves to read Z or something like that, but for me it was just reference. This reference would lead to this reference, and I just made sure I kept delivering on the manuscripts that I got to work on.
J.D. Myall:That's good I am. Have you done the IP that I got to?
Veronica Bane:work on.
J.D. Myall:That's good.
Veronica Bane:I am. Have you done the IP? I have, yeah, that, and that was also just me saying. Whatever comes along, I will give it a go.
J.D. Myall:And that's what you have to do, like, yeah, yeah, make a career of it, cause even with your own titles, a lot of times you know to keep a constant flow of money. You want to do that.
Veronica Bane:Yeah yeah, and my IP wasn't the thing that ended up taking off, but I feel like the just me taking the job and trying it. I felt like. I feel like it felt almost like a like a TV writer's room, like a collaborative process. And I'm not. I really love having collaboration at every step of the process. I know some authors are they need a little bit more I don't know how to say it but kind of independent time with their book, which I do love. But I also love when other people get in and give their ideas or pitch things and I can take those ideas and run with them. So it felt like a natural way to work. And I don't think IP is for everybody, because I do think some authors, they need to be in kind of control of every step of the way. I I just, I just love writing. So you give me an idea, which is why it feels like TV everybody just kind of in a room popping ideas.
J.D. Myall:Um, what um. Who did you do IP for? Can you say, or did you sign NDA?
Veronica Bane:I signed an NDA. Okay, sadly, you do IP, for Can you say or did?
J.D. Myall:you sign NDA. I signed an NDA, okay, sadly.
Veronica Bane:So tell me about your current title. Yes, so my book is Difficult Girls. It is about a girl who gets her dream job at a local theme park, only to find out that a star performer is missing and that disappearance is possibly connected to a murder from 20 years ago. And she just can't help herself. She has to start investigating and it's about what makes girls difficult and the ones who have been told they're too much or they come on too strong, and just kind of how they find their place in the world. Because I was definitely one of those girls. So it's my, it's kind of my love later love letter to kids like that Love that Was it a full manuscript.
Veronica Bane:This was a full manuscript sold on submission yeah.
J.D. Myall:Um, who did your book sell to? I know you just announced this stuff, so give me all the yeah, yeah.
Veronica Bane:So my book sold to Penguin Random House, slash Delacorte, to Krista Marino, and she is literally my dream editor. And I remember reading One of Us is Lying way back when, and just being in awe of kind of how tightly paced that book was, and it felt like something completely different than what I had seen in. I'm a high school teacher and I love YA, so I read a lot of YA and I just I was like, oh, I love this, I hope one day I can write something like this. And so now, to be full circle, and she's my editor, I just feel really overwhelmed with gratitude.
J.D. Myall:Awesome. Tell me the story behind this story. How did you get the idea for your current novel?
Veronica Bane:okay, I do have. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to say stuff like this, but you're my first interview, so give me, give me a little bit of grace. But, um, I worked at a theme park growing up and I worked there for many years. I was a theme park usher, so I was basically a, you know, a bouncer for the shows and made sure that kids didn't run on stage, and I was also a princess, and so I, I, um, that was the best job I've ever had, because I got to just sit in a throne for an hour and then I'd go back to the green room and, um, recuperate, and so I mean I miss that shot.
Veronica Bane:But so I loved theme parks and I've always loved theme parks, and I think it was just in my brain that experience started merging with an idea for a murder mystery and just kind of gelled together. And then I had an idea for Greta, the protagonist, and again that she was drawn from that girl who just is so much and just has, she doesn't know her place, so she just keeps bounding from experience to experience and is desperate to find where she can belong, and so those elements all started swirling together and became the book.
J.D. Myall:Love that. When is your book going to launch? When is it going to be in stores?
Veronica Bane:Summer 2025.
J.D. Myall:Awesome. And do you have any launch parties planned? How are you going to promote it? Oh God.
Veronica Bane:I have Sorry for my barking dog. I have a local bookstore that I am absolutely in love with that I am hoping I will get to launch the book at, or at least do some kind of signing, just because it's called Annabelle's Book Club. It is a bookstore that is owned and run by a young adult. So it's just, it's incredible and she's so smart and has such great taste and she's always there whenever you go into the store and I just it's one of the most gorgeous bookstores I've ever been in. But I love many bookstores because I feel like they all have their own personality. So I would hope maybe there, but there are many others that I love as well. So I just I just can't believe I get to play on a launch party period. I'm still in that. That part of it.
J.D. Myall:So what does your agent relationship look like?
Veronica Bane:Oh my gosh, I I feel so lucky to have signed with Michelle. She, she what I think.
J.D. Myall:The agency is she from again?
Veronica Bane:I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, michelle Wolfson, she's at Wolfson Literary Agency. I have felt so fought for and supported every step of the way. I had a lot of anxiety when I first signed with. I had an agent before her who ended up leaving agenting. But then now I've been with Michelle most of my career but I was so scared to just send an email. I didn't want to bother anybody and that's my generalized anxiety coming through. But I just was sure and I think even writers without any extra anxiety have that fear that they're bothering their agent or they're being a burden.
Veronica Bane:And Michelle has done such a good job to just make me realize. No, we're a partnership and she's there to help me and she's there for a quick question or she's there to talk me off a ledge, which in this industry happens a lot. Just in that we've had a lot of ups and downs and she's never given up on me and I have never likewise given up on her. Just, I knew we were going to get here, I just had to keep writing. And but I think also our relationship part of it is that the writing didn't necessarily always look like, okay, I'm going to sell this book. It was. Let me get you any writing opportunity that I can get you and that's how I've, you know, made. I have a day job, but I've made a living as a writer and that's meant the world.
J.D. Myall:And when you're doing your own titles like how does that work, Do you? Do you go with her with a form, with a full book or a formed idea, or do you say these are the things I'm thinking about which ones do you think you can sell?
Veronica Bane:I think so. Part of it has been, you know, going to her with ideas, but she'll also. What I really like is she's like if you like it, go try. You know, if you think that there's something here, she's. I've given her YA contemporary novels. I've given her YA thrillers. I've written middle grade, I've written adult, and she's always just like give it a shot. If you, if you really believe in it, I believe in it and um, and we will collaborate. We'll brainstorm ideas and talk through things and I just I always feel she's in my corner, no matter what I am writing, and I know that there are. I have some author friends who have said that their agent was kind of a one book.
Veronica Bane:Like, I like this idea, but if you come to me with an idea that isn't my jam or I don't know how to sell, and that is just a different relationship, and I think for me, though, having someone kind of find something to love in your book and to cheer you on is really helpful, and there are definitely ideas where she's like I think this would work better than this, but I've always just felt supported. That she's you know she's trying to help me have a career. Apologies for the cat.
J.D. Myall:I was holding my dog when we started.
Veronica Bane:This is leftover from Zoom teaching. As soon as he sees me on a Zoom, he's like, and now I make an appearance.
J.D. Myall:Let my fans adore me.
Veronica Bane:Yes exactly, and then I can look like an evil character from a super villain petting for the camera. Does my answer? Did that sound okay, or did I just ramble? You sounded great like a super villain petting for the camera. Does my answer? Did that sound okay, or?
J.D. Myall:did I just ramble? You're sounding great, like I said. Thank you.
Veronica Bane:Thank you for.
J.D. Myall:It's not a test sweetie, you can relax oh my goodness, thank you.
Veronica Bane:So you also teach creative writing, I do.
J.D. Myall:What do you teach your students about the beginning of a novel, like, how do you hook readers and keep them engaged?
Veronica Bane:We do every year. We do National Novel Writing Month on kind of a smaller scale, but so we focus a lot on the idea that your story should spring from. Who is your protagonist? What do they want more than anything? What do they do to get what they want? And then what stands in the way of them getting what they want and how. It always comes back to character.
Veronica Bane:And we study the Hunger Games, which I think is as close to a perfect novel in terms I mean YA, but anything honestly, as it gets, just with how tight it is. And we look at how that opening chapter really establishes Katniss's want. She wants Prim to be safe, no matter what, and she'll do anything, even if it's sacrifice for life. And it's just such a clear indication because I think that you can have a hook, that is, you know, explosions and running and all of that, but if it's not tied to character, your audience isn't, I think, going to be in it for the long haul. And so I think an opening really has to center on character and who they are and what they want and how we get a sense of the lengths they're willing to go to get that.
J.D. Myall:Love that. What makes a good villain?
Veronica Bane:I think what makes a good villain is that the same things that make a good protagonist, because I feel like we've all heard it, but something I always tell my students is nobody thinks they're the villain. They think they are the protagonist of their story and they are just doing the same thing. They want something and they're willing to go to great lengths to get it, and generally that want is at odds with the protagonist. Whatever they want, and I think that makes for great tension and great stakes, and just it makes them a real person too. I feel like every writer should go through the experience of trying to consider their story from the villain's perspective. And what would the book be about if the villain got to tell their side, so to speak?
J.D. Myall:Love that. How do you maintain tension I?
Veronica Bane:think, I think continuing to bring it back to character, but also being aware of if the book is getting away from you, and some of that comes out in editing, I think. I think writers sometimes have to free themselves to write the first draft that needs to exist, the first draft that needs to exist, and I want to say it's I'll have to look up who said this later, but they said the first part of writing a book is putting sand in the sandbox and then from there you can make the castle. But you can't make the castle if you don't have any sand. And that's kind of.
Veronica Bane:I think where tension comes in is going back, and I like to let my book sit for a bit and then put it on my Kindle where I can't touch it, and go somewhere like either go get my nails done or go sit in a park or somewhere where I don't have access to my computer and just force myself to read it at that messy first draft and see where it's lagging and then really pull those parts out. And sometimes that means pulling out entire chapters, entire POVs. But that tension is an elusive thing. But I think, if you're, at least for me, if I'm constantly worrying about tension as I'm writing the first draft. I think that's another way to get lost. I think sometimes I just have to go from my outline, do the best I can and then tighten it up later.
J.D. Myall:So you're a plotter? That was going to be my next question.
Veronica Bane:Yes, yes, I don't think. I think plotting allows me to be more creative and spontaneous within the book. I don't necessarily adhere to every part of the outline like things may take a turn, but it at least gives me a guiding light and then when I get to the scene, I may change it completely from the outline, but at least I had some ground that I knew was happening beneath me. And also I just I will say I have ADHD and I think if I did not have an outline, we would have no idea where we were going. We would really be just throwing things and trying to figure it out as we go. So I think that the outline helps me have some foundation, but then I still get to play. And I also think, when I'm starting a book, before I do anything, I write a first chapter. I see what the voice wants to be, I see who the characters are. I couldn't go just outline. And then I need to get a sense of who they are and then I can outline.
J.D. Myall:Love that I outline too, but I'm never 100% true to the outline. Yeah, take over and deviate little places.
Veronica Bane:Exactly. Well, I think some of the best plot twists come from where you're like oh, I wasn't even expecting that when I wrote the outline, but now I see that's 100% the way to go.
J.D. Myall:Love that, Love that. What has been the well, actually, I'll give you one more question, right?
Veronica Bane:You can be as many questions as you want. I'm homesick, I'm dying to kill. Wow, you feel better here. I know I'm homesick to kill. Wow, you feel better here. I know I'm hoping I'm at the tail end because it's been a week so how do you close an Alba?
J.D. Myall:well, close it out.
Veronica Bane:That's a really great question.
Veronica Bane:I think that last chapter I had a professor in college that was sure you needed to know your ending before you wrote your book and he actually had us write an entire book of endings where we just wrote the end of whatever these stories might be and I liked parts of that experiment.
Veronica Bane:But I also realized I don't necessarily have like an end for sure stuck in my head, even if it's on the outline, because I feel like so much of it has to be tying up threads, making sure that the emotional catharsis related to the characters is there, making sure that the emotional catharsis related to the characters is there. So I think I have like fuzzy version and then I have obviously whatever the outline says. But the outline usually I think says something like wrap up well, so future me is like great, I'll try. But I think something that feels true to the character. It's either they're getting what they wanted from the beginning or they're realizing that they want something different and it's changed over the course of them learning about themselves. And I think usually it falls into that latter category.
J.D. Myall:Love it, love it. And your book is like mystery thriller. Right it is. It is what makes a good mystery thriller. What are the elements of that?
Veronica Bane:Oh boy, I love when and I read a lot of mystery thrillers it's one of my favorite. It's obviously one of my favorite things to write, but it's also one of my favorite things to read. And I like when they outsmart me, because I really try to outsmart them from the second I open the book and I'm like, okay, I feel like it's usually one of the characters that's introduced early and it's not the red herring and it's not. You know, maybe it's someone who seems too innocent. I like to figure it out, I like to puzzle it out and I like when they best me. I like when I don't get it right, but I also want it to feel like I should have seen that. I really appreciate when an author can make me have that reaction, because I think a good mystery thriller it's somebody that makes sense, but it's not somebody that you expected. I think that's that dance you have to walk, or dance you have to do line, you have to walk.
J.D. Myall:Love that, love that. What was your biggest surprise so far in the publishing journey?
Veronica Bane:I think at this point it's not. It is no longer a surprise, but I think it was a surprise initially and it's always a surprise to my students when I talk to them about it and it's how collaborative it is. I think we think of writing as a very solitary exercise. Someone goes over to their ancient typewriter and they get their cup of tea and they just go at it. Or they go to a coffee shop with their laptop where they're surrounded by people but they're working by themselves and it's really not. From the very first moment that you send out a query letter you're asking for your first collaborator and actually before that you should have beta readers and critique partners. And that's been an essential part of my process is I have a writing group that I meet with every other week and we bring about 1500 words and we talk it out and we give feedback on big plot things and character points, but also on line level, and that's made my writing so much better and I think if I had tried to just be one of those solitary writers, I wouldn't have improved, I wouldn't have grown in my craft and I know not every writer works that way but I think the more comfortable you get with sharing your work and learning how to find the note under the note.
Veronica Bane:There have been plenty of times in a critique group where I got a note and I was like, okay, that specific note or their suggested fix doesn't feel right, but it's telling me I have this problem underneath that I can figure out how to fix and I love that. And my editor I am so grateful that she gives notes and some of them have really pushed me and pushed the book and initially I was hesitant and I had to go sit with them. And then I came have really pushed me and pushed the book and initially I was hesitant and I had to go sit with them. And then I came back and I was like, oh, she's right, I know, and I hate it and I love it and it's just part of the process and I feel just so grateful to be in a business where that is the case. So I'm glad it wasn't solitary, but that was definitely the biggest misconception, I think, going in.
J.D. Myall:And where did you get your critique group members? How did you find them?
Veronica Bane:We have known each other. I think for now some of us have known each other for nine years and came together from other various, you know writing classes that we would take and then branched off and um and yeah, and we all write different things and it's just. It's been really. It's been really cool to see the different projects that we've all come up with over the years. But yeah, I think they started out in different classes and then just yeah, well, what state are you in? California.
J.D. Myall:Oh cause? Because I I think I interviewed your um agent mate. Uh, becky, yeah, yeah, you said Becky. I thought that that's who you were talking about, but then I was like, well, becky's a common name, it might be another no, she was.
Veronica Bane:She was really excited because I told her I was like, yeah, I'd reached out too and, um, you know, I suddenly have free time, but so in some ways it's a blessing in disguise, but yeah, I can't a couple of days she was talking to me in the thick of the uh busted pipe and stuff too, like I don't know.
J.D. Myall:She did warn me, she was.
Veronica Bane:she was like she was sweet, and then I found out at the end that she was dealing with some home crisis. What a professional just pushing through.
J.D. Myall:If I'm shifting a lot, it's because I'm sitting on the hard floor in the dry house. Great more thing. What else was I going to ask you? What else is I going to ask you? What do you wish that you knew about the writing journey and being a professional writer when you were just starting out?
Veronica Bane:it's not going to happen immediately, and that's a good thing. Like I am grateful that I got to have so many years of craft and development before my first book comes out and then I've written so many books so that I'm a little more prepared of what to expect and the emotional toll, even of you know, I feel like I feel like I got to not to not to borrow my students slang but I feel like I got to cook a little longer. I got to get to where I needed to be. And that doesn't mean I'm not going to keep getting better. I would hope that with every book I get better at this, and but I think if we were getting baby Veronica's first book that I first went out with to get agents, I don't think that was the journey I was supposed to have. So I think you know that that version of me would have been really frustrated if I told her like you got some time, but it's all for the best.
J.D. Myall:Very true, very true. I'm deeply ashamed of the first book I wrote. I'm mortified now. That's how the world knew me.
Veronica Bane:And I'll get a little deep, but you can take what you need. But my mom passed away suddenly when I was. I just I think I'm trying to remember where I was in my I think I can't remember if I'd signed with Michelle yet or not. I actually don't think I had, but I, with the past agent, we'd been on submission with a book and then she said she was leaving agenting. But when my mom died, I feel like the dream changed for a little bit because I questioned am I going to be able to write? Is this going to mean anything to me now that my mom's not here to see this? And that made writing hard for a bit.
Veronica Bane:And this book that I ended up selling was the first book that I wrote after my mom died, and writing books after my mom died just made me reevaluate and made me more willing to take risks, because I just wanted to tell stories that were really authentic and that dealt with grief.
Veronica Bane:I felt like the way I'd seen grief in books for so long was so disconnected from what actually happened. And even in books and TV and movie it was. You know, someone is very sad for a montage and that's it. And grief just wasn't like that for me. It was obviously excruciatingly painful, but there were also weird moments, and I don't want to say happy moments, but just strange moments where you were happy, but it was. How can I be happy in a world where my mom doesn't exist? And so there were complicated feelings that I was eager to put into my writing and I I think, now that I've kind of gained the craft to kind of deal with those things, I'm I'm happy to be writing about them, not happy to have gained the life experience to be able to write about them, but happy to be writing them for someone like me who went through that and didn't see that kind of represented in what they were reading.
J.D. Myall:I love that. That's a great answer. Are there any tools that you found like really useful, or helpful during the time when you were querying or during your writing process, or yeah, I think writing process, I feel like I've tried.
Veronica Bane:I'm always willing to read a craft book and give something a shot, because I feel like kind of you got to try on all the things to see what fits. And I used to be very when I would outline. I would always outline with the hero's journey and then I would adjust it later. But sometimes I find that outlines are like that. They're a good starting off point to show me what I'm missing. But especially with Thriller, I was like the hero's journey just doesn't quite align to what I want it to do, and so I feel like in terms of resources, I would say, but I feel like every writer should honestly just go to their local bookstore and go to.
Veronica Bane:At least my local bookstore has a table of, you know, craft books and it's everything from save the cat to um story genius to character workbooks, and just flip through and see what looks good and try it and if it fits, great, and if not, maybe it sparked something else for you. So I think that those, those would be kind of tools. I also I just I love a note card when I'm plotting initially, especially if I'm writing dual POV or multi POV is each character gets a color note card and, like Greta was always green, and I write their journey and then I move the cards around and I see how everything looks together. And I've had a critique partner come over and we feel like that, that meme of Charlie day where he's like this and going through, okay, is the murder coming off the way we need it to? And so I think note cards are honestly probably my biggest tool that I've used.
J.D. Myall:Awesome, awesome, awesome. When you talk to Becky, tell her I tried cat pet. She was mentioning that with her tools. Yeah, love it. I posted my first cat pet video.
Veronica Bane:Oh, I love that.
J.D. Myall:Oh, I love that, I love that yeah she was like no, it's easy and I do a lot of videos on there.
Veronica Bane:So yep, well, I have to make my. I made all my announcements for all the other platforms, but TikTok's my last one, because I was like, oh, I gotta wear makeup for this.
Veronica Bane:And then I was like I have to wear makeup for my interview, so then we'll film. After that I felt funny because I did get in terms of tools. I got myself a little tripod and a little light and was trying to take it very seriously and I had them in my writing bag at school and the kids were like, miss, why do you have a tripod and a light? Because I think they were filming something for a project. And I was like, oh, you can borrow this. And I was like, oh, I'm trying to be serious on TikTok. And they were really cute. They were like you should just be yourself, they'll love you. I was like, will they?
J.D. Myall:Oh my gosh, Low key. I was a little embarrassed when the carpet guy walked over because I have like these big orange reflectors, like big gold reflectors. Then a little light in front of me and I'm sitting on the floor because I told you he's working on the carpet. So I'm sitting on tile floor with a webcam and these things and he like looks in like what is she doing? I know right, you're done.
Veronica Bane:Okay, thank you this is what it takes, man, we gotta, we gotta look our best. Sometimes the natural lighting is not giving what it needs to give, so like ever.
J.D. Myall:Oh my god, I had one I did at my parents house. It was like it was terrible.
Veronica Bane:I know I well, because I get off of school so late that I'm like, oh we got a fake natural light because we don't have it anymore. So, yeah, awesome awesome.
J.D. Myall:I'm trying to think what else would you like to know readers and aspiring writers to know about you and your journey that we didn't cover?
Veronica Bane:I think one thing I would caution aspiring writers about is taking advice that doesn't fit you. I heard a lot when I was starting out and I heard it also at I studied creative writing too. You have to write every single day. If you don't write every single day, you're not a real writer. You have to put your butt in the chair and you have to put words on the page, and I think I will buy into that. But only if writing doesn't necessarily look like writing to me. If I go for a walk, that might help me break a story just as much as me sitting and typing on the keyboard. If I go and I get breakfast by myself, that might help me figure out a character. If I go talk to a friend and we just are chatting. If I go see a movie, if I read a book, those things might fill the creative well, versus me sitting at my laptop trying to force something that's just not ready to be forced. And I used to really think, especially because, okay, well, if you're doing this as a job, you have to just push through, and what I found is, yes, but pushing through is doing those other things that I talked about, and then the writing comes so much easier. But what I think I found is, if I was just sitting at my computer trying to force these words, I just felt ashamed and I felt wrong.
Veronica Bane:So I think I would tell writers hear the writing advice out. But also you might have to come at it a different way, and that's okay. And especially, like I said, because I have ADHD, I had to figure out what worked for me and a lot of times I use an accountability buddy where I have a body doubling. So my friend will come over who's also a writer, with her laptop, with her dog, and our dogs play and we do 25 minutes and we you know she's there, I can hear her typing. So I'm like, oh, I have to type too, and then our 25 minutes is up and we get five minutes to chat and then 25 more minutes of writing and the dogs play. So I don't have to. You know, my dog's got his exercise and I've gotten my writing done, and it's one of the only ways I've been able to make it so that I write after work, because otherwise, as a teacher, I am so exhausted. So I had to come to that and figure that out and and make the advice work for me.
J.D. Myall:So I love that. I forgot to ask you earlier. How did the call go? Tell me about that.
Veronica Bane:Oh, with agent or editor or both Both. Well, so my agent call. I'm going back all these years.
Veronica Bane:But, uh, my agent call. I just I was so nervous, I was so excited, but I'd been through it before because I had my first agent, so I actually had um, she was not my only offer of rep and I I felt like I went into that call more prepared to ask for what I needed and also less distracted by what I did not need, and I was really able to see are we a personality fit and do we see the same things in the book and does she love the things that I love? And then can she help me see the things that I need to see to make this better? And I just remember feeling like, oh, this is right, this is right and I am, yeah, I was right. I'm glad the other agent was wonderful, but I think that Michelle was the right call.
J.D. Myall:And your editor call.
Veronica Bane:I cannot. I truly don't think I can gush enough about Krista. She is and she has a great team. I get to work a lot with Krista and well, obviously Krista, but her assistant, lydia as well, who's an editor now on her own and she's also an author, and I just Krista, saw things in this book and loved this book in a way that I needed it to be loved. That she saw my little weirdo and said, yes, I am all in on this difficult girl. And when you write characters I'm sure you can appreciate this I feel like sometimes when you write characters that might get called, I'll just say, difficult because of the title, I think sometimes you can question, do I really release this one out into the world? And so to have your editor be all in and say, no, I love this and we need to even make her shine more, that just I was like, oh, we are in good hands and I could not. I could not have been happier on that call.
J.D. Myall:And you mentioned the Hunger Games.
Veronica Bane:Katniss was difficult and she's loved by everybody, that's and you know and it's funny that you say that, because when I teach it, sometimes the kids are like, oh God, katniss, like why are you doing that? Like she'll be like be like, oh, clearly he's doing that because he's trying to kill me and we're over here like no girl. Clearly he loves you. This is love that you are. But there's something so real about that and I think Suzanne Collins portrays that so well and that's what I needed an editor to see with Greta that she has those flaws but she is trying. She doesn't know exactly how to handle things the right way and I really wanted someone who saw that teens do not act the right way 98% of the time.
J.D. Myall:We certainly didn't.
Veronica Bane:No, if anything, being a teacher has given me the uh, the comfort to watch them make the same mistakes. Like all of them, they all make these mistakes, and they're still wonderful people, but they just they're just finding their way, and you got to make those mistakes, and so I want to see that in every book I write and that's what I love to read the most is the characters who you're screaming at like please turn around, don't, do not pass, go. This is terrible, you are going to suffer, but they do it anyway because that's how human beings are.
J.D. Myall:Why did you choose to write for young readers Now? I'm not asking this the way other people ask this. I say that because you know I write for teens too and I love YA. Some people ask it like it's like well, what are you going to write grownups?
Veronica Bane:Yes, Well, they, they, they ask it like it is a consolation prize.
Veronica Bane:Like oh you know, why are you writing the baby books Like when are you going to make the jump to the big leagues? And I'm like, no, this is this is where I want to be. I I think that there is something so powerful about when you are a young adult and you have everything in front of you and you have all your mistakes just around the corner and you have plenty of mistakes behind you and you're in that period where you are finding who you are, finding what you care about and getting into the messy part of life. I never like when people say that teens are going to get to the real world, because I teach teenagers and I promise you they are already in the real world.
Veronica Bane:They are already dealing with the consequences of our actions, the consequences of the world's actions. They are in it and they are dealing with it every single day. But they are dealing with it without the experience that we have. Like they just have to fly into this and and hope for the best and be willing to get their hearts broken, and and I I just think there is something so beautiful and wonderful about that, and I also think I write books hopefully, for the version of me that would have loved to read a messy girl making terrible decisions and seeing that it's okay, because I certainly made plenty and I didn't know whenever every decision I made I thought was going to be the end of the world and to see a book where you make the bad decision. Life is not over. You get through it and you make more bad decisions.
J.D. Myall:I love that Exactly, and that's real life. It's messy, it's complicated, it has to be figured out. We kiss frogs before we find Prince Charming.
Veronica Bane:Yes, and I love writing for adults too, because I write both, know I write both and and. But I think there's just there's a richness to each experience and and I think that people assume that sometimes in young adult that that richness is absent, and I I just could not disagree with that more, because I think some of the richest novels that I get to teach, that I get to read, are in young adult, and I love that.
J.D. Myall:And they're complex, just like adult novels and for me myself and not even just me, but a lot of people, a lot of adult people read young adult novels. I like McQueen's Pacey. In my new program we had to read a lot of literary and it was slowly killing me because I'm not a literary fiction fan. I like the plot and the pace and the big emotions in YA.
Veronica Bane:Yeah, those big emotions. I think that's also why a lot of people like romance. I think there's something for me, me, there's something to be gained with every type of book, and I think if people say I only read this or I only read this, you're cutting out an entire part of the menu and I don't know why you would want to do that. I, I feel like there is something to be enjoyed in every genre and every age convention, and and I'm going to keep my options open because why not?
J.D. Myall:What are you working on next?
Veronica Bane:Another thriller, but I think that's all I'm allowed to say.
J.D. Myall:I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I heard from somebody I interviewed that has like post debut that after the book comes out there's like often a post debut like depression or whatever. Yep. So hopefully that's not true for either of us. But I'm just warning you, since they said that, cause they're like they said that you're like on a rush and you're excited until it happens. Then it happens and then you come down off of that.
Veronica Bane:Yes, I have heard that and I'm sure it will hit me. I read in a book. I read a book before and after the book deal and they talk about that at length and they said you know, have a day for yourself, like I think I'll have a day where I get like a facial, I get my nails done, I got a good book to go read at the beach, something where I'm doing something for me. Um, but I also will say, having ghosts written a lot of books, it's interesting to watch the launch as the ghost writer, because you kind of get all of the good but none of the like. It's just like I just watched that. It just comes into the world and then the world moves on and you write another book and I'm hoping maybe I will say this and then look back in a year and laugh, but I'm hoping that I can internalize some of that, as this is just one book. It is not your entire career and you can be excited about this moment, but this is not the end.
J.D. Myall:Beautifully spoken. Where can I connect with you?
Veronica Bane:I am on all of the social media? I feel like probably not, but I am on TikTok Threads, instagram. Feels like there's more. Twitter X as at Veronica Bain.
J.D. Myall:Facebook.
Veronica Bane:Yes, I'm on there too. I don't think our readers are.
J.D. Myall:They say that, I know, I know.
Veronica Bane:They say you got to Romance is big on Facebook, because I think there are some Facebook groups where they're very active and they suggest, but I think for young adult no, they're on TikTok.
J.D. Myall:Do you write romance as well?
Veronica Bane:I do. Oh cool, I didn't know that. Yeah, so I primarily ghost wrote romance. So I primarily ghost wrote romance. So but then I also I've drafted my own. So hopefully one day when I'm I want to write it all. So but hopefully one day I get a chance to finish those up.
J.D. Myall:That was another piece of advice I got from the seasoned author that I interviewed the other day and I'm passing it on in case it's useful to you. Yeah, when she was talking about the post-debut depression, she was also saying that to survive financially as a writer, you have to write it all because of the nine. Yeah, I mean that is so. That's when you do your middle grade or your adult and you just keep pushing.
Veronica Bane:That is yes, I love that advice and I've heard it myself and I think that's also why I made it clear to Michelle. From the beginning I was like I just want to write, I love story, I love characters, and so, whatever that looks like, I want to do it, and so and luckily, I feel like that is that I don't think I would have necessarily written thriller if I had gotten into my head like, no, you are this kind of writer. I needed to stay open, and when that idea came, I was like, oh, you're a thriller, great, we'll write you as a thriller.
J.D. Myall:So Love it, love it, love it, love it. I'm excited. I'm excited for you, I'm excited for me, I'm excited for us both.
Veronica Bane:I'm excited for you to have flooring eventually.
J.D. Myall:This is really sad. I feel like I just moved in. Everything's piled up. I'm sitting on empty floors. It's crazy.
Veronica Bane:And you're, and you're still getting all this done and working on your own book. When is your book coming out?
J.D. Myall:It's coming out in fall 25. The first one, it was a two-bit deal, and then the second one comes out in 26.
Veronica Bane:Nice, that's so exciting. I know I've added all the ones that were on the spreadsheet for Goodreads, but it was a blur of like adding them all, so I'll have to make sure I go in and find yours specifically.
J.D. Myall:I was telling Becky that what I would love for us to do is, around everybody's debut date, either go on live or do like a Zoom you know what I mean, yeah, and rooting that person on, and we could all plug our books too and then like pitch it and, you know, put it all on our socials and stuff like that to help yes, stuff like that and promote us at the same time.
Veronica Bane:Yes, there's so much pressure to make your debut stick Right and I know that people will be like, no, don't worry about that. And I'm like, let's be real. We all know that, yes, we do need to come out of the gate with some success. I'm not saying it needs to be a bestseller, but if we want to keep, going yes, we have to take advantage of these opportunities.
Veronica Bane:So I'm like, what are we doing? Are we doing social media posts? Are we doing newsletter? Are we doing? Oh, people can sign up for my newsletter. I did make a newsletter, but, yeah, school visits, especially as a teacher, I'm like I want to do school visits, whatever is going to move books, so that I can keep doing this, because move books so that I can keep doing this, because I'm also co-chair of the Drexel MFA program, the MFA alumni program.
J.D. Myall:So if you're in Philadelphia, and you want to do anything at Drexel, let me know and I'll talk to the program director and make that happen.
Veronica Bane:I did see. I think it was Eric Smith said on one of the he's at Drexel oh is he, oh he's a Drexel.
J.D. Myall:He teaches at Drexel. He's a professor there.
Veronica Bane:Oh, that's so cool. He said he was like go where for book events, go where you could have a birthday party. And I was like that is such good advice, because if I show up to a state where I don't know anyone, of course no one's showing up, they don't know me. But if I go, I didn't think about that right and I was like, what great advice. Because, yes, if I, if I could go somewhere where I know at least three people, then hopefully they bring their friends and I'm, you know, not one of the. I mean, I'm sure it sounds like a rite of passage the book event where you're the only one there, but still I'm hoping that you know so.
J.D. Myall:Well, who knows, though, you might come out the gate massive and then people show up where you don't know anyone and be like, oh, it'd be like a joint event thing, like if we were ever able to coordinate it, like I don't know how everybody's schedule is going to be or when everybody you know. Yeah, but if we were ever able to coordinate like a joint thing, with me being like as a co-chair of the alumni um, I'm in with the Drexel people, so the Drexel people would show you know what I mean. Yeah, well, if we were able to do a joint event, you know what I mean, oh, absolutely, I'm, I'm game for anything.
Veronica Bane:I'm just I'm so excited it's and I'm so excited to talk about other people's books. That's why I like joint events, because it feels like just people hyping each other up rather than like here, I am talking about my book.
J.D. Myall:Not only that, with us all being you like, we never know who in our group will take off. You know what I mean. Yeah, like one of us, is that bestseller through the roof? Then you know, these little videos and affiliations and associations might get us a couple more reads, exactly.
Veronica Bane:And that's helping each other. You know, and I just want more people to read YA and all these great books that are coming out. So, but to what you said, like you do not know what's going to be the big book of 20. And I'm hopefully there will be multiple big books of 2025, but you know, I love yours, though.
J.D. Myall:That sounds super cool.
Veronica Bane:I. You know, um, I love yours, though that sounds, I love yours too. I'm like I. I just it's weird to have people like now know about it. I'm like, oh, you've just been mine for so long and now you're about to be other people's, which is exciting.
J.D. Myall:But weird, so I haven't announced yet, so I'm still waiting for my exciting but weird oh my god the Drexel. People know, they just know they can't say anything.
Veronica Bane:Yeah, that's my, there were a few people and then finally I did ask them. I was like, hey, I'm going to, I was going to y'all west book festival and, um, I was like I'm going to be around all these authors, like I would really like to introduce myself and try to do some networking, but obviously I'm not allowed to talk about it and they're like, oh, oh no, you can talk to them Like. They're like please go network. And so I got to talk to some of the authors from my imprint and then from my publisher and they were just so nice. They were like oh my God, we're so excited for you, we're going to hype you up when your announcement. And I'm so glad because if I had just I feel like done, just like okay, I'm announced. And like it had really been a secret, I think people wouldn't have been able to jump in the way that they, the way that they did.
Veronica Bane:So, yeah, so, I'm glad that you've told some that you have and also I think it keeps you sane because I was going from December. I was like I've done things you people don't know. I've done things like I've met deadlines. I will say, I think, very realistic view of publishing, which I think is necessary. Oh yeah, there are parts of this that are going to be hard, and that's just the nature of publishing, and so that was stuff you're not going to get on like. My author portal is not going to be like. By the way, publishing is not always great about giving support in this area Pay Like it was seven months before I saw a check.
J.D. Myall:What other job do you work seven months before you're paid? I was just excited.
Veronica Bane:I was so grateful because I was a teacher or I am a teacher, and they got me my first notes like right away so that I could start working over winter break, and I was just like that's so nice of them, I'm so glad.
J.D. Myall:When you're new, you don't want to be the squeaky wheel because you don't want to be labeled difficult or them not wanting to work with you. I got hit by a car shortly after my book sold. Oh geez, I was afraid to tell them because I was like I don't want them to think I'm unhealthy and unreliable. So I was in the hospital for six days like sending emails, like all this.
Veronica Bane:And, like the logical part of your brain, knows God. I would hope the people I'm working with are going to understand this Right.
J.D. Myall:But I feel like that and this is, this is my dream part. It was just like yes, I I got.
Veronica Bane:When I got the call from Michelle that the book sold that same day my dad went into the hospital for his heart, like randomly, and so I was like I came home to my husband and I had just been texting him about the good stuff and so when he saw me he was like yes, and then I was like my dad's in the hospital and he was like what? And it was just like and same thing with my agent was texting me all these good things and I didn't want to be the bummer, to be like and he's fine now. But it was just the calamity of trying to understand that life does happen and they will understand that you are a person Right. It just doesn't compute for whatever reason.
J.D. Myall:Yep, you're just scared of losing the dream before the dream gets fulfilled.
Veronica Bane:Well, and when I first got, it was also when all that. What was her name? Kate Coran, the writer who left all those negative reviews on Goodreads, so that was like oh my God, I heard about that.
J.D. Myall:I didn't know her name.
Veronica Bane:Yes, it was sweeping social media on the day that I got I mean, nobody knew, but the day I got my deal and literally I was watching someone who had and obviously I would never do anything like what she did and I think it was unfortunately deserved but I was watching someone lose their dream in real time, Like she made horrible decisions to do this and this and she lost everything. And I was like, oh God, and I know that me being like I'm sick, I need more days is not the same as I went on a review spree, but in my head I just thought oh, it can go away.
Veronica Bane:And that was terrifying.
J.D. Myall:Very true, very true. But when it's in stores, that can't go away, that's permanent. That's done. You achieved that. You did that. Celebrate it. Yes.
Speaker 4:That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD Moyle. Thanks for joining us. If you liked the episode, please comment, subscribe and share. If you liked the episode, please comment, subscribe and share. For show notes, writing workshops and tips, head to jdmacom. That's jdmayorcom. While you're there, join JD's mailing list for updates, giveaways and more. Thank you.