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Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Navigating Creative Partnerships
What happens when two writers set aside their egos and embrace collaboration? Join us on Craft Chat Chronicles as we recount our chaotic yet rewarding journey co-writing the fantasy novel "Crimson Rain." From our humble beginnings as online acquaintances to tackling the complexities of merging distinct writing styles, we share candid stories about our initial struggles and the communication breakthroughs that led us to a more sophisticated and cohesive writing process.
Dive into our strategies for maintaining a unified narrative while allowing individual voices to shine. Learn how we divided writing responsibilities, managed multiple character perspectives, and overcame the challenges of harmonizing diverse writing styles. Whether it's blending vivid settings with suspenseful horror or navigating the delicate balance of giving and receiving feedback, we provide a transparent look at the intricacies of collaborative writing.
Finally, explore the dynamics of a successful writing partnership and the invaluable role of community and accountability. Hear about our editing adventures, early editorial feedback, and the lessons learned along the way. Gain insights into marketing strategies, building a readership, and get updates on our current and upcoming projects. Don’t miss this engaging discussion filled with practical tips, personal anecdotes, and the shared wisdom of two writers committed to the art of collaboration.
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Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction. Here at Craft Chat Chronicles, we bring you expert interviews, insights and tips on writing, publishing and marketing. Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey. But I had written for workshops, show notes and more information, visit jdmyhallcom that's jdmyhallcom.
Maggie Giles:now we wrote crimson rain, which we are revisiting now, yes, exactly so, it was the very, a very online relationship. But yeah, we kind of just slid into the DMs and kind of had a couple back and forth and then we decided to start plotting a novel, which a lot of people would tell us we were being crazy.
Jaymarie:I love that Like. So how long were you like friends back and forth before like the idea of writing together came up?
Maggie Giles:I would say I'd have to go back and like confirm for sure. But it was definitely a few months of kind of back and forth. Jd had been posting some of her work and I'd been reading it and vice versa. So we kind of had like a little online pen pal and then we kind of started talking about it yeah, exactly. And then we kind of started talking about.
Jaymarie:Yeah, exactly, I love that. So, like when you decided to like, okay, we're going to do this, like so the first thing that you did, was it some of the administrative stuff, like oh, like we'll meet this many times and quit things, or did you start with breaking the story and then that stuff kind of came later?
Maggie Giles:It was chaos, I will say. When we first kind of planned it, we had no idea what we were doing. So we kind of were like had this idea where we each had a character and so we were each going to be writing a character's point of view and trying to kind of put together a story that way. We found out very quickly that did not work as well as we hoped it could.
J.D. Myall:So we did have to do some more administrative. Yeah, because there'd be scenes where, like, the characters were together and we hadn't thought of how to navigate that Right.
Jaymarie:But in the same scene. I did yeah. So how did you like finally kind of figure out how to blend your ideas and you know the research and the perspective like you were talking about?
Maggie Giles:Yeah, I think some of it was ego. For me for sure, I had to really let go of my ego, which I'm sure you probably remember dealing with at the beginning. We're just so protective of our work and what we write. We're just so protective of our work and what we write and as new writers we're really it's really hard to kind of let go of that and and accept some collaboration, which I will say now is a much more seasoned writer. Collaboration is the best thing in the world and I accept it from anyone who will offer to me. But at the time it was really tough. So, you know, it took a couple times of us stopping and having some conversation, sort of maintaining our.
J.D. Myall:that's probably like annoying in the beginning too, because I was like, um, like overly eager. You know what I mean. I just wanted to like jump in and race and da, da, da, da and like, um, like, for example, she'd have a chapter and I'd like it and I my early drafts, I OD on setting, so like I might jump in and just start spewing all this setting stuff and she's like wait, where'd this come from? What are you doing here? So we had to work through some of those bumps in the road. But, like I said, I was probably very annoying because I was overly eager.
Maggie Giles:I would not say annoying. I think you know you were excited and it was great, because you need somebody like that in a partnership, because, especially when there's two people coming in and are really new and protective about what they're doing, one person really has to be able to kind of be that that drive, that one that you know if one person gets frustrated, they can kind of be like no, like it's okay, we'll, we'll try something else, we'll look at it a different way, and you know you, okay, well, we'll try something else, we'll look at it a different way. And you know you, you had some so many really great points, but when it did come to things that were in contention, it was really easy to come to an agreement between the two of us. I don't think either of us were ever too bullheaded, which is definitely part of it, because you do really have to accept the feedback.
Jaymarie:Well, they just work perfectly well together. But like, really well, they just work purposely well together. But like, really like, were there any type of disagreements where it did take a lot of back and forth? Or, like you had mentioned, ego before, like, particularly in the beginning, we're just like, okay, okay, like, was there anything like that? Particularly when you're talking about the bigger aspect of the story.
Maggie Giles:I think, on my part for sure, like I'm pretty sure I quit on you, like what three times shady at the story. I think on my part for sure, like I'm pretty sure I quit on you, like what three times JD at the beginning, where I'm just like it's okay, it's your book, it's your book, you do what you want. I think I quit like three times. So you know, and again, like that was just something that was a big learning experience of how to do that plotting and that planning with someone, and so it was something that now I think, when we have conversations, we're so much more on the same page about what we kind of want to see and what we sort of expect, but we're also so much more mature when it comes to, like, our writing and and our management of people.
Jaymarie:Yeah, I love how you talk about communication, because I had written a project with a partner once. It was the first time I had ever done it. I'm like in retro and it fell apart, kind of and in retrospect, for for me it was just like oh yeah, it was that communication. I could communicate it better. So, like I agree, it is the type of learning experience where you can learn how to communicate better and work well with others.
J.D. Myall:Oh, I'm sorry, we even queried the original version, but we were both very new writers and it was very early in our writing, so there were like some plot elements that like weren't right, but we did get feedback, which makes me think that even then, even though it was very early in our careers, that we were on the right path. A little bit like that, like I remember one agent telling us because there's a witch in the story but she didn't get her like magic to like the last chapter, and they're like how do you have a witch and not use her until the last chapter? But he gave us really good feedback and then he mentioned that and then I'm like well, he actually read it to the last chapter to know the witch didn't get her power until then, which means we were at least engaging enough to hold his attention that long.
Jaymarie:So you know, this time around, those are one of the many plot elements we want to fix and tighten up. When did you all decide to like come back to it? How long had it been?
Maggie Giles:Yeah, so you know, I think it was something that we've kind of been following each other's writing careers for the last few years, like we sort of I think we kind of got to a point with it where we were querying, we weren't really sure what to do next. We both kind of went a couple different directions with our writing career, but we still stayed in touch and we've always kind of been keeping each other in the loop with what's really going on. Um, just because I think what we were saying, it's been like 10 years or so since we met online all those years ago, which is crazy to think about. But yeah, it was just sort of like we've been chatting more and more and now that we're kind of both more, a little more established in what we're working on and where we're going, we've kind of made a goal that by the end of this year we'd like to have our go back and revisit and get this first draft very solid.
J.D. Myall:I think this time you reached out first, didn't you?
Maggie Giles:Yeah, you know, we were chatting about sort of what was happening with you and you were telling me kind of about your story and Sophie kind of chatted more about me. Because now that I've kind of gotten the background of the publishing and sort of working with a publisher and I think, you know, maybe kind of getting better at storytelling, I'd like to think I'm learning a little bit with each book. You know, it seems like a much more achievable goal now, I think, than it did, you know, six, seven years ago, I guess, in terms of, I don't know, have you all talked about writing process yet for when you get back to it Later this year or so?
Jaymarie:or is it just something that's like on the back burner, Like yeah, we're going to do it, but we haven't, you haven't gone into too much detail?
Maggie Giles:So I will say, yes, we've done some chatting and we've made a plan that we'll be kind of sitting down to have some phone calls before we really sit down and do the writing. And I will say that we have started this draft. I think it was last year. We kind of wrote a couple chapters and we plotted a bunch of stuff. So we're going into the next draft feeling pretty solid about it.
Maggie Giles:So I think the biggest thing that we'll really want to work on, which I know we've chatted a bit about, is kind of who writes when and what part and, uh, and making sure that we're cohesive, because obviously we want to make sure we're writing a story that makes sense together but at the same time, you know, we both want ourselves to go into it. We have certain voices that we know want to be included and, um, I think, as long as we're pretty solid where we think we want it to go, we've always been really happy with the storyline that we tell um, but JD, when we chatted most recently, she had some really great, uh, more fantastical elements to add in, because it was really something that we lacked a lot and we're like, if we're going to lean into this magic and this fantasy like, let's lean into it, yeah, and she's really really good at chills and stuff like that.
J.D. Myall:I love she's good at the fantasy, but I really love your chills, so I'm hoping that we can work some of the little horror elements you're really so talented at into suspense, a little thriller.
Maggie Giles:Well, we definitely have to have that.
Jaymarie:I'm loving this already suspense thriller fantasy like that's my thing.
Maggie Giles:I love that.
Jaymarie:I can't wait to early reader right here for us like, definitely, um, so you had mentioned voice, so as particularly like two people writing together decide that there would be. There would be the distinct voices because you're working on different characters, or did you try to mold into one voice? How did you go about doing that?
Maggie Giles:yeah, I think we do have a few different voices.
Maggie Giles:We are working from, uh, three points of view, as I believe what we've recently decided on as our kind of focus and it was three women, which will be really fun to write, and they're all very different women.
Maggie Giles:So that'll be something that will, I think, will be a bit of a strength and also a bit of a weakness for us, because I know I'm very notorious for writing like a similar voice all the way through my characters and having to go and edit and and changing stuff up. So I think it'll be really neat to see between the two of us how we can kind of merge these different voices and what we've kind of done in the past and we may change it up. But usually we each have a character we focus on and then we have a character that we like work on together. Um, and then you know, we go through and we still edit, like we want the consistency in the storytelling, even if, like, even though the characters voices are different, like we still make sure we edit for the consistency and with us being different people like if she's primarily focused on one character and I'm primarily focused on another they're gonna have very distinct voices because we're different people.
J.D. Myall:And then, like she said, after the chapters are written, we like I'll go through her chapters and give feedback, she goes through mine and then that's where the cohesiveness comes in and where it gels together um, well, I guess you just answered that because you were talking about revisions and editing process.
Jaymarie:That's what we did when I had worked on the project with someone. I had certain scenes, because I'm a screenwriter, so like I had certain scenes that I was writing and she and she was writing other scenes, and then we did the same thing, like so I would read hers, she would read my scenes, to make sure that there was that cohesiveness. Um, were there any points where maybe someone had some feedback that you didn't agree with and, like you, had conversations about that?
Maggie Giles:really at the beginning, when I had a really big ego she was not that bad.
J.D. Myall:She's exaggerating, but I love the but you're very patient.
Maggie Giles:I should say that, and I'm and I'm the first person to say I'm not like that anymore. I was so defensive of my writing, um, but I think now it's like. Now we're again, because we're both so much more realized in what we're capable of. One thing, for example that is my biggest weakness um, I have aphantasia, so I don't have a visual imagination, so I don't picture things. I don't really ever think to describe things, and that's something JD is amazing at, because she's like we'll go into a scene and she goes, okay, like we need to see more. We don't know what's happening here, and I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, can we, can we fix that then?
J.D. Myall:like what does the drapes look like? What is she wearing?
Jaymarie:you know what I mean, because I love setting you go that far. See that as a reader I'm not someone who's like really all that gung-ho about setting, like just give me enough so I can kind of see where they are and everything but like the drapes.
J.D. Myall:But that's a lot well, I'm a fantasy girl and in fantasy there's a lot of world building. There's a lot of that. So, like I said, my first drafts are usually really heavy. You know, you beta read some of my stuff, but my first drafts are really heavy on description and then as I edit, I always have to go back and thin it out.
Jaymarie:But that's. That's like the best thing, though, to have so much that you need to thin it out instead of like, oh, I need to write more. So, in general, what are the pros and cons of working with another writer?
J.D. Myall:I think the pros are it gets done quicker because you're writing like half the book and I think as a team we bring out really cool elements of story that you might not have thought of individually.
Maggie Giles:And I'm still a fan of her writing, so like I still read her scenes like oh, that's cool, you know what I mean so yeah and it's kind of neat, like I think from that side too, like as a writer, when you're writing a story you fall in love with these characters. So to get to experiencing somebody writing that character and you getting to read about them is is a weird kind of fun. It's like it's like experiencing your own fan fiction, except not because you're working together but it's just like you don't often have people that write about your characters working on it.
Maggie Giles:Um, and I mean, like I said, collaboration, like I am huge, huge advocate for it. I tell people over and over again like my acknowledgements in my books are massive, because I don't write this book by myself, like you know, I take feedback from my editors, I take feedback from my beta readers and it's just having this built in partner that's as invested in your book as you are and someone to bounce off of, it's so cool. I mean. I think it'll. I think it has its cons to it, always does like some.
Maggie Giles:One of the cons, for example, is sometimes we have a phone call and we don't talk about books at all. But I mean, maybe that's also a pro. But you know, I think with anything in writing there's those pros and cons and it just comes down to, you know, finding your partner. It's you want your partner and your agent, you want your partner and your publisher and your editor and all that sort of stuff. So it's the same sort of thing in collaboration. Like you find someone who can understand, who enjoys your writing, who is excited to be on that topic with you and you know, then throws out way any of the difficulties, especially if one of you is a little dramatic do you remember the website that we met on?
J.D. Myall:yeah, it was scribbophile. Okay, because I didn't remember the website that we met on. Yeah, it was Scribafile. Okay, because I didn't remember the name of it. It's like an online critique site.
Maggie Giles:It's still around. It's a really cool site for novice writers. It was where I really learned a lot about the industry. But it does take a lot of work, because you spend a lot of time critiquing other people's work in order to get the return, I will say I've got at least five people from that site that I'm still close with 10 years later, so I'm good at least for that I only found one.
J.D. Myall:I didn't slide into enough DMs apparently.
Maggie Giles:I did a lot of DM sliding See she was cheating on me.
Jaymarie:She was just a lot only collaborating with you, okay, but that's good though, because we always talk about how, like you know, building your community of people of other writers that you can like ask to read your stuff and you know, maybe events and all that kind of stuff. It's really helped. I for me it's helped, kept me going. Every now and then it's like what are you writing? To make sure I am writing something.
Maggie Giles:Yes, the accountability, it's huge yeah.
J.D. Myall:You had written a short story about somebody in jail.
Maggie Giles:Yeah, on script oh, my horror story. Yes, you love that horror story I did.
J.D. Myall:That's why I'm like. I like her, her elements.
Maggie Giles:I still remember that yes, I know, I feel like every time we shot you're like so that story?
J.D. Myall:I'm like, yes, it's very short that's how I, that's what made me slide into your dms. I love that right. You're right. That was it was during my.
Maggie Giles:it was during my short story era and I was posting a bunch of short stories.
Jaymarie:Oh, that's an impression on JD. Did you ever like publish that one, or was it just like something you did?
Maggie Giles:I'm pretty sure that one got published just like on a website somewhere. So probably about, probably about like eight years ago, the writing of like short stories and publishing on online platforms was really, really big. A lot of those online websites are gone now. Some of them would pay some of the ones, um, but it was like a really big thing on screw a file for a time. So I was writing some short stories and I did write a specific horror one for one of the like horror website, um, but I believe it did get posted. I do not think it's in forever.
Jaymarie:Since we were talking about beta readers and getting feedback from other people, did you all do that process beta reading and having your other writer friends read Crimson Rain?
Maggie Giles:We had one person that you had connected with JD that read it.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, and I got it edited, believe it or not yeah, we were very novice. I had faith in us and I got it edited, and that editor should have warned us that we didn't have enough magic in our book.
Jaymarie:But you know we're probably too busy finding our other newbie mistakes was it like like a developmental editor, or just like?
J.D. Myall:a line edit Okay.
Maggie Giles:And we did get some feedback, for sure.
Jaymarie:So did you so when you got that feedback? Cause I know for me, like, if I get feedback from other writer friends you know people who stuff that I've read I'm like, okay, I trust you, I see what you're talking about. But sometimes you get feedback that's just like I'm not feeling this or you know, oh, they don't understand, even though maybe they do and you're just kind of like did you get any feedback like that? Or or and like how did you try to incorporate that?
Maggie Giles:well, like, I think we're kind of that's sort of where we got stuck, I think is that we got to kind of this point and then we weren't really sure what to do next. Right, and I think that was just a really big comment on the fact that we were both still really novice and we didn't really know what to do with the feedback or how to even start incorporating it. Uh, so we started thinking about book two instead.
J.D. Myall:Yes, true.
Jaymarie:Were you going to start writing a whole other book?
J.D. Myall:We plotted a whole other book and hadn't gotten any interest in the first. But yeah, that was. Us had a whole series imagined in our minds.
Maggie Giles:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, that's something that we are now kind of working with and, I will say, with the plotting that we've put together, uh, since then has incorporated a lot of that, and you know our ability to write and take feedback a little bit better but what's funny about it is like novice writers.
J.D. Myall:Um, we both came in with like a certain amount of like belief in ourselves, probably prematurely at that time, because I told you I'm like we're getting an editor, we're gonna query this, this is gonna be everywhere. And then we queried it and it was like not everywhere yep it was.
Maggie Giles:It was a little bit of an eye-opener for us here we thought we had twilight and yeah, we I was like stephanie myers watch out it's great that you had that much confidence in yourself, though she had no reason to worry at all, though. She could sleep comfortably. Oh gosh, yes, it was. We'll say that we did feel good about our writing, for sure, yeah.
Jaymarie:So how do you think with writing partners in terms of like publishing? How?
Maggie Giles:they should handle that together. Well, did yes, go for it.
J.D. Myall:What we did when we were querying. And again we were. The book wasn't ready, but I think I think the process probably would have worked had we been further along in our writing journeys. But like we made a collaborative email and remember we did that and we sent the submissions and stuff out of that so we could both log in and see what was happening. I forgot the question, so I hope that answers it.
J.D. Myall:I would, and that's exactly like how I like, as like writing partners dealing with the publishing process together okay, well, that was like I said, like I said our plan, like I said, so that we would both know what was happening and then we could engage the process from there as far as if we got interest. But you know, sadly we did not. So that was as far as our publishing process went. But I have a book deal since then, Hopefully Several books published. So we've grown.
Maggie Giles:We've grown.
J.D. Myall:Yes, yes, and writing is a journey. Maggie, tell her how many books you had before your debut novel.
Maggie Giles:My debut novel was my seventh book I wrote.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, the newbies watching this get depressed now.
Jaymarie:Writing is a journey, not everybody and I didn't edit early books, I just kept writing but that sounds about standard though that's in the range that I've been hearing yep, yep so I also technically what like I was going back to the administrative task, because I know like I'm someone who's always like scheduling things and like it's on the calendar and JD's a little different. How did like? How did you all go about just keeping on track? Were there, like when you were writing? Were there these like programs that like people use now, like mondaycom and like all that kind of stuff?
Maggie Giles:No, I will say that JD and I are on the same page of how very little schedule and organizing we do, which may be why it works. I will say our first draft. I think this time around again will be better. But when we first wrote it was very, um, it was very chaotic. We wrote a lot by inspiration, we wrote a lot by the seat of our pants. Um, we had started kind of being like okay, we'll, you know, mix chapters and you'll write this person and then I'll write this person, and so on and so forth. And then it kind of got to a point where one person would sit and write four chapters because they had the inspiration to write those four chapters.
J.D. Myall:And the next person would come back whenever they felt inspiration and write four more. You know.
Maggie Giles:Or if we had certain scenes we knew that had to be written, we'd write those and then plug them in. There was always the going back. I will say anything JD wrote. I always went back and went over same thing with me to kind of make sure things were, you know, consistent and the story was being told. But yeah, it was definitely more chaos than organization chaotic organization, I like to call it our most organized thing was the fact that we shared the google drive.
J.D. Myall:Other than that, like even our conversation about writing weren't organized, it would just be a oh, we should chat. But it wasn't a lot of scheduling and planning that went into anything back then. Yeah.
Maggie Giles:I love our notes. Our notes are also chaos.
Jaymarie:That's true, as long as you understand them. Yeah, we figure it out.
J.D. Myall:And I started adding Pinterest. How do you say Pinterest or Pinterest? How do you say that Pinterest, yeah. Pinterest. I started adding Pinterest boards to try to make it more visual.
Maggie Giles:Yes, which is very helpful for me.
J.D. Myall:So you know.
Jaymarie:Yeah.
J.D. Myall:And the disorganization continues. Because I told you, the reason we're doing it this time today is because I accidentally scheduled three people for the same time today. I forgot that. I had anything planned. So I planned three things. I had to reach out to two people like hey, you go early, you go later, but it all worked out in the end.
Jaymarie:As long as it works out, it works out.
J.D. Myall:It's an ongoing theme.
Jaymarie:One day we'll get that.
J.D. Myall:But in the end we get it done, it comes together. It just takes a frantic route.
Maggie Giles:Yes, absolutely, and you know what, and that's fine, like everybody's got the system that works best for them, like and like I said, I think this time around we've already plotted more, we've already planned it out more. Uh, we finally have our focus on our three characters, whereas I think the first time around we're like, hey, we should definitely do a chapter from this person who's never shown up before.
Jaymarie:This is just so it's like a marriage. You do what works for the both of you exactly, and I know her tells now, which is fun too.
Maggie Giles:Yes, that's true, you do oh and again like I think that's that's. It's funny too that we talk about this now. It's like when we went into it to start, we were also very like. I don't know you very well so I don't know what I can say. I don't know what kind of criticism you're comfortable with, whereas again, like now, so many years later, it's it's a lot more relaxed, it's a lot more like. You know, say what you're gonna say. All good, not gonna take it personally and it's the good of the story.
J.D. Myall:So we're both a lot more humble in that too. If I have an idea that's not gonna work, then you know I'm humble enough to be like okay, we'll go with yours and we found it through.
Maggie Giles:Right. You find, you find the thing that makes sense sometimes. Sometimes you have an idea that's awesome, but it's, like you know, way further than we want to go. So we scale it back because the idea is great, but it's just like you know, just maybe not not totally there and and it's just figuring out where the balance is or she'll be like you know, that is really great backstory.
J.D. Myall:That, um, we don't necessarily have to put, but it's good for us to know. I think, that's a sentence that works.
Maggie Giles:We can keep that right here.
Jaymarie:You should just write that scene and we'll just, you know, have it for later. That's good to know those things. Um, so, in terms of, I want to go back to publishing. In a sense, were you trying to publish in the us, canada, both, is the process different?
J.D. Myall:we wanted to do it traditionally at the time, um so we wanted to do the regular query route, get an agent and hopefully they'd be able to sell it everywhere yeah, yeah.
Maggie Giles:so I will say North American publishing, because I am Canadian, as we said, is quite similar across the board. Most publishers you sign with do have usually North American rights. So if my publisher, for example, is a Canadian publisher, they have my North American rights. So they have a partner down in the US that they've used for distribution, because my press in particular is a smaller press, whereas you get into the big five they all have, obviously, international presses. So when you publish with, like HarperCollins, we're usually publishing in HarperCollins, canada. Harpercollins, uk.
Jaymarie:Cool. So is there anything else you all would like to add about being collaborative writers? Before I start asking you about like stuff you're writing alone, because I want to ask about that too, no, okay okay, you have to.
J.D. Myall:You have to be I'm stealing this from you, mike, this is something you said in the past you have to be attached and detached at the same time. You have to be attached enough to be invested in the characters in the story, but detached enough to where, like it's not like devastating if somebody changes something because it's compromise and stuff involved in collaborative writing and, um, like you guys said earlier, communication, understanding, coming up with a plan that works for the two of you and all that good stuff.
J.D. Myall:Patience patience is great, yeah, and you gotta respect each other's. Like I said, I respected her writing? I think yes yeah, reach out in the first place.
Maggie Giles:You know what I mean yeah, and I you know, and I think that's it is that it's like if you can put aside the ego, because ego is so huge in this industry and I know it's funny, because it's funny to say that, because there's so much imposter syndrome in this industry too, so to like think of the two that seem so polar opposite. Um, but it's, it's exactly like you just is that you have to be attached to the writing but detached enough to understand that what you put there might not be the correct thing to be there or might not be the thing that works best, and so you really have to be able to find that balance with your partner where you're fighting for the things that matter you know, obviously in a respectful way, but you are also conceding to the things that you know will be better from that collaboration, from that person's input and and and trust, like it's.
J.D. Myall:it is a relationship based on trust absolutely right and the things that you don't, that don't make the book you can always use for your solo projects later, so the idea that didn't make it can spit into another story or marketing, marketing, marketing for later too. Exactly exactly. Oh, speaking of marketing, her day job is marketing. So, before we hear about her personal projects, can you give us five marketing tips for aspiring authors or for people who want to promote their work?
Maggie Giles:Absolutely so. The biggest one I always say is really it's building up your readership. Obviously that's the biggest and most important thing. That's finding your ideal reader. You don't just want to blast out into social media about, um, you know your book and just blasting it like you want to speak for the person who reads your book, like is your typical reader, 20, something, you know woman who is interested in fashion or cooking or whatever finding that market and really appealing to it.
Maggie Giles:So a lot of things we talk about in marketing and social media especially is like having your buckets and making sure you focus on those buckets. So you know your books are obviously one of your buckets, but does your bucket deal with cooking? Well then, you have cooking as a bucket too. Or is there you know a dog or something in your book and you have some dog features on your site and it's really just making sure that you're pushing those things out to bring in the people that are going to read and buy the book.
Maggie Giles:Building up your community, connecting with bookstagrammers, booktalkers not just following them like interacting with them, you know, commenting on their stuff and just really putting yourself into the community is really the best way to get out there more and market more Like it's. You know you can go and you can pitch to all these publications and you can post constantly, but if you're not going to give back to the community and be interacting with it, then you're not going to connect in it quite the same way. Obviously there's the big blockbusters who can do whatever they want because they get there, but for us little guys, we really have to build our own community and build your own readership up.
Jaymarie:Very true, very true. So, maggie, what are?
Maggie Giles:you working on that you can talk about now. So I just got developmental edits for my fourth book, which is set to come out, I believe, in 2025. Fourth book which is set to come out, I believe in 2025, um I it is a book, uh, sort of set in a small town. It's currently titled the Art of Murder, um, and it really follows, uh, two best friends and one of them discovers a desire for killing and slowly becomes a serial killer, and the other one eventually figures it out.
Jaymarie:I love that, me too. That sounds so interesting, so my comp it to um novel.
Maggie Giles:We were never here. Uh, very based around friendship. That friendship who is these people who grew up together and kind of the secrets that they keep and what that kind of does to their community we're looking for that in 2025 your book covers I love your book covers like thank you, I have an amazing designer give her some more business, or yes, her name is Nat Mac.
Maggie Giles:She is stellar. She does a lot of rising actions, covers and I have to say, everything I've seen her do is just absolutely amazing who did your website, your website's great?
J.D. Myall:oh, thank you, I did my website oh, I had no idea you had such talent.
Maggie Giles:My background is in web development, so that's sort of where I started love it, love it.
J.D. Myall:What other talents do you have that we don't know about?
Maggie Giles:oh, that's probably about it around my dog, who apparently had to interrupt their podcast today you guys still got snow, or did it melt? It's pretty much all gone. We've got spring weather today, so the hills still have some, but the ground is clear, making its way out.
Jaymarie:Almost spring, almost spring, muddy season almost spring muddy season, um JD, do you have anything going on that you're able to talk about, right?
J.D. Myall:now, um, I'm still writing on the books for the two book deal that I told you about. I'm still writing on the first one, so I'm still drafting that one. I'm almost, yay, done with the revision of the first draft of the first book, so I'll be able to turn that one in within the next like week or two, yay. Um, I'm also writing like a dark academia murder mystery with you know it's me, so it has to have a little hint of the supernatural. So there's a girl trying to solve a murder at her boarding school and she's being haunted by the ghost of the murdered kid at the same time. Who's kind of like trying to force her into finding the killer?
Jaymarie:that sounds cool yeah, I can't wait for the next draft of that. Get ready, one of my early readers for that one.
J.D. Myall:I love that yep yep.
Jaymarie:So yeah, yeah, it sounds like collaborative writing can be pretty awesome if you have someone awesome to write with. And I have to say, like your story gives me hope, to go back to the project that I had worked on with a friend, because it just kind of ended and I was upset, like I was sad, and you know, like I was sad and you know, like, like I was saying in retrospect, I I should have went about it differently, because I was just kind of like, okay, well, I'll do this and get back to you and I didn't do it, um, because I was upset but see, here's the thing.
J.D. Myall:But here's the thing. Maggie quit several times and we still worked it out. We're back at it Because you're patient. Yeah, we paused now, but it's not from a we quit perspective, it's just from when we both got busy with our other projects. We've made a deadline that we're going to definitely get it done by. Yes, but yeah. But like I said, just because you walked away doesn't mean you can't walk back. You can go back and be like you know. I've been looking at this again and how about we make another go at it?
J.D. Myall:those characters are always there waiting for you yeah, definitely we should do a horror mags one day, maybe because I like how you write scary.
Maggie Giles:I know the thing is I have to read more horror to like really grasp it to write it, and I'm scared when I read it do you get scared when you write it, or that's like different? No, I don't get scared when I write it, because I'm writing it so I know it's okay or not okay, whatever it's like I read somebody else's, I'm like I'm very upset yeah, I can't read like.
Jaymarie:I can't even like really watch horror either, because, like I think, because I'm a writer or a creative person, my mind goes wild and then I'm like up at night hearing creepy sounds and thinking someone's outside the window. I love it though.
J.D. Myall:Those are like the best ones. Now, I can only watch horror stuff in the daytime because I'll have nightmares, but I was like a kid reading Stephen King and interviewing a vampire and all that stuff and I like the books that made me want to jump in the daytime when I was reading them as a child very twisted child but yeah, that was me.
Jaymarie:I love it you were very you were telling me about that. That lady writer, what was her name? But her writings used to be for a young adult, but now it's not. I can't remember. I have to look it up and like what was the book about. It was like some crazy stuff, like somebody was living in the attic with her kids and then like oh, I used to love that too do you just know exactly who it is flowers in the attic when the kids were living in the attic.
Maggie Giles:I have heard of that one.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, she had some not for kids stuff in there, but you know they marketed to us and we survived. I read it as a teen.
Jaymarie:I wonder if they and I live for every scandalous word I get that. You know if they've made any like series or movies off of her books. Yeah a million of them.
J.D. Myall:There's Ruby, there's Petals in the Wind.
Jaymarie:Oh, petals in the Wind. I've heard of that one, okay.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, that's out of order, though Flowers in the Attic would be the first one. Petals in the Wind is've heard of that one. Okay, yeah, that's out of order, though flowers in the attic would be this first one.
Jaymarie:petals in the wind is like later in that series oh, it's like a whole series yeah they even have like the prequel series on amazon prime anything to watch tv for me, because it's it's research, as I tell myself too much, and I was like, okay, you sat here watching a whole bunch of k dramas to watch TV for me, because it's research. I'm just being writer as I tell myself too much, and I'm just like, okay, you sat here watching a whole bunch of K-dramas. I'm like what writing did you?
J.D. Myall:do today. So, maggie, what are you working on outside of writing?
Maggie Giles:Honestly not too much. It's been a very busy work, which is a good, but hectic. And then then, yeah, otherwise I just hang out and take care of my puppy, and she just turned a year, so she's a lot.
J.D. Myall:I love her, but she's a lot now, I know you do marketing for your day job, but what do you market exactly?
Maggie Giles:uh, so it's like an industrial manufacturer, so it's like very out of the uh creative scope of what I do personally, um, but it's just more a lot of like technical marketing, um, you know, changing trade shows, uh, banner websites, that sort of stuff. Do they know what you do are?
J.D. Myall:they impressed um. They know what you do.
Maggie Giles:Are they impressed? They know what I do. I don't know about impressed, but they know what I do, I think they're impressed. Thank you. That's something we generally just focus on work when we're at work. I know there's some co-workers, uh, who are definitely readers and have read, but, uh, not everybody are readers these days very true, very true yeah but we are yes, thank goodness it has been super fun, ladies yeah, megan, you have to come back with us anytime.
Jaymarie:Yes, absolutely.
Maggie Giles:I love this.
J.D. Myall:This is so maybe one day we'll do like a marketing one and you can talk about like book, all things, book marketing yeah, we could definitely, and I have to prepare that one a little bit more okay oh, and we can also like, when we finally finish the draft, do a part two and talk about how we finished the process.
Maggie Giles:Yes, we can definitely do a part two and discuss how we found our renewed process to go and how many times I quit this time, yeah there we go. We will definitely do that.
Jaymarie:Maggie, what are your socials so our viewers can check you out, or we're on a podcast, whatever, whatever they're called.
Maggie Giles:So it's just my full name, maggie Giles underscore. You can find me on Twitter, instagram, tiktok, facebook. You just have to say my name, otherwise they're all on my website, which is just maggiegilescom yes, yes, and it's a beautifully designed website as well.
J.D. Myall:Puts mine to shame, all righty sweetie. Thank you so much for joining us.
Maggie Giles:We shall see you soon thank you guys, thank you, thank. You have a great one.
J.D. Myall:Thank you. Thank, you have a great one.
Jaymarie:Bye. Are you going to just unrecord or?
Speaker 1:that wraps up today's craft chat chronicles with jd mayor. Thanks,