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Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Episode 11: From Debut During COVID-19 to Disney Success: Author Emma Theriault 's Literary Journey
Disney author Emma Theriault is here to share the captivating journey behind her debut novel, Rebel Rose. Join us as she recounts the unexpected creative freedom she experienced while working on this Disney IP project set against the backdrop of the French Revolution. From the exhilarating highs of signing with her first agent in 2016 to the unique challenges of debuting during the 2020 pandemic, Emma's story is a testament to resilience and adaptability in the ever-evolving publishing world.
Ever wondered about the emotional ups and downs of securing a book deal? Emma opens up about her submission process, the sting of initial rejections, and the joyous moment of landing an enthusiastic editor. She also emphasizes the importance of understanding what parts of the debut process can be controlled, offering valuable insights into managing expectations and building a strong author platform. Listen to her share practical tips from seasoned authors like Martha Waters and the significance of personalized promotional efforts, including engaging newsletters and authentic reader interactions.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. We dive into the craft of writing, focusing on how to create compelling characters and avoid a sagging middle in your narrative. Discover Emma's techniques for maintaining narrative momentum, along with the joys and challenges of writing historical romance. Additionally, we explore the supportive nature of the Canadian writing community and the thrill of participating in major literary events. Whether you're an aspiring author or a seasoned writer, this episode is packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories.
Keywords: Disney, publishing, writing tips, Author Emma Theriault, Rebel Rose, debut novel, COVID-19 pandemic, IP project, French Revolution, literary journey, publishing world, agent signing, submission process, book deal, rejections, editor, author platform, book marketing, Martha Waters, promotion, newsletters, reader interactions, writing craft, compelling characters, narrative momentum, historical romance, Canadian writing community, literary events, aspiring authors, seasoned writers, creative freedom, resilience, adaptability, storytelling, debut author
Commercial before HG release.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction. Here at Craft Chat Chronicles, we bring you expert interviews, insights and tips on writing, publishing and marketing. For workshops, show notes and more information, visit jdmyhallcom. Episode 11 of Craft Chat Chronicles.
J.D. Myall:we have Disney author Emma Thuraut. Emma has written Rebel Rose, which is a Beauty and the Beast novel for Disney. In this episode she talks writing IP for Disney. She talks her publishing journey and gives you a lot of valuable insight on writing and publishing, and she discusses her new novel, a Lady Would Know Better. Welcome, emma, and enjoy everyone.
J.D. Myall:How are you Doing good? How about yourself? So tell me a little bit about your writing journey.
Emma Thuraut:I signed with my first agent in 2016. So that was ages ago now and we went on sub pretty quickly with a YA fantasy and it was sort of in retrospect. It was sort of on the cusp of the big boom sort of ending. So I think we went in with like stars in our eyes and you know, sort of big expectations for what it could do and it got a lot of interest but ultimately, just it didn't sell. So, um, you know, we got an offer for like a digital deal from like a really big editor, but that just wasn't what me or my agent envisioned for the book. So we were like, okay, let's pivot, let's do something different. And I had another book, sort of die, on sub. So it's been a bit of a journey.
Emma Thuraut:But then with Rebel Rose, my debut, which came out a couple of years ago, it was actually an audition situation, so it was an IP project.
Emma Thuraut:My agent got an email, a pitch, from the editor at Disney and asked if I was interested in auditioning for it, and I didn't think I would get it. I was interested, of course, but I thought it would be more of a learning experience Like this is how you pitch, you know, a project on proposal and stuff like that, and I thought it would be fun, um, cause, you know, usually these flashy IP projects go to people like Sarah J Maas or like somebody with an existing following. Um, so I really did. I did not anticipate actually getting it and then found out that I got it and had to very quickly write a book, um, which was not how I've written books in the past. So yeah, so that came out in November 2020. So obviously that was a bit of a different experience than your average debut experience back in 2020. And you know, I was given all of these opportunities that didn't end up working out because of the pandemic, so it was a different kind of learning experience.
J.D. Myall:What was it like doing the IP project with Disney? Are they very like strict with the outline? Do you have some input in it? How does that work?
Emma Thuraut:I know. I mean, I went in assuming that I'd be very restricted and very much tied to an outline or to a vision that you know maybe wouldn't be mine, and I thought that would be a learning experience too, like how to write. You know, not necessarily the story that I'm passionate about, but from the start, when I got the pitch if you're not familiar, it's a story about Belle after the Happily Ever After and the pitch was Belle after the French Revolution. And I studied history so I'm a bit of a history nerd so I went into the project asking if I could change the pitch, because to me the more interesting story would be just before the French Revolution and how Belle and the Beast react to it. So my agent at the time was like, you know, I'm not sure that they'll be into changing the pitch, but I'll ask. And I was like, yeah, please do, like I'll do it either way, but could I just see if they're open to this? And they, they were right away. So I auditioned with something that was already different from what they had asked for. Um, taking a bit of a risk there, but I just knew that it was. It was a more interesting story to tell.
Emma Thuraut:So I did everything I could to write a story that I thought would appeal to them but also worked for me. And yeah, so when they chose it, I didn't know if they'd you know, come out, come out with a binder of, like you have to, I can write an outline, or you can write an outline, or we can, you know whatever. So I think that in a different circumstance I would have loved her input, but I had a really clear vision from the start of how I wanted to write this book and I wrote the outline. She approved of it, obviously, like we, we went back and forth and it was more like a normal editor agent or editor author relationship in that you know, she read what I wrote, she had her input and I never dealt with anybody larger than my editor. I'm sure that it went through approvals that I don't know about, but it was. It was so much more freedom than I thought and I'm just so happy. It was a great collaborative process.
J.D. Myall:I love that. So what was the 2020 debut? What did that feel like? Because I know it was hard in the pandemic and lots of people talked about 2020 debuts, but I hadn't really had the experience of speaking to someone who lived it yet.
Emma Thuraut:Yes, yeah, yeah, it was certainly trial by fire. I went into the year quite excited, so in January, I was starting to get all these emails like they were going to send me to book expo. It was going to be this big, splashy experience that I had been dreaming of for, like you know, I signed with my agent in 2016. So I've long wanted that kind of journey, and so I was elated, like I can't believe I'm going to get this opportunity. And then, of course, I can't believe I'm going to get this opportunity. And then, of course, it didn't happen.
Emma Thuraut:Um, I remember getting an email from my agency, um, probably in early March, late February, early March, where we sort of knew that it was starting. And it was a very, um, professional email and it was like you know, it's, it's up to you if you want to do these things. Like we didn't know how big it was going to be yet, um, and they were just sort of like you can do stuff, but like you don't have to. And I was still. I was, I was very ignorant still, and it was like no, I want to do whatever I can for this book. Like I'm, I'm willing to take the risk.
Emma Thuraut:And then, of course everything shut down, rightfully so, of course, um, so I wasn't able to do those things, so we really had to pivot and, um, you know, bookstores were mercifully open again by November. So I know that a lot of debuts who came before me didn't even get to go into a bookstore and look at their books, which would have been like particularly painful um, but no, I went in with my Beauty and the Beast mask on um.
Emma Thuraut:I got to hold my book the day it came out, so that was was. I'm so grateful for that and I'm also grateful that we got to do these. We did virtual events, so I did one with Victoria Aveyard, my friend, and I did another one with Danielle Clayton, who is just so amazing. So it's just super cool in that way that I don't think I would have had the opportunity to do events with authors like that in the real world, like if we had had. You know, I live in Canada, so it's a bit of an ask to get to people, to come to me. So that was like a silver lining and it's made it so that going forward, I'm going to make sure to always do virtual events alongside my in-person events, because it's so much more accessible for everybody and I'd love to just reach as many people as possible.
J.D. Myall:So so much more accessible for everybody and I'd love to just reach as many people as possible, so I love that. Um, you mentioned your agent. What agent and agency are you in?
Emma Thuraut:okay. So this was with my old agent. I was with Susie Townsend at New Leaf and then, um, I pivoted again my journey is all about pivoting when we tried to sell more, uh, ya, fantasy, and it wasn't really working. And I this during the year of my debut. So during the height of covid I couldn't really read, ya, I was like I can't get my headspace there. So I read probably 70 plus romance novels in a row and, uh, historical romance in particular. So I decided I wanted to write one. And then it just made sense, um, with my old agent, like she wasn't really working in that realm or of publishing anymore. So we amicably parted ways. But I signed with my new agents, carrie Pistrido and Katie Gassandi at Laura Dale Literary Agency and they represent my books going forward and they loved my historical romance. So we're working on other stuff too, which is great.
J.D. Myall:Now, how did you find her? Did you find her through the slush pile or was there a referral?
Emma Thuraut:So when I was querying again so the first time I queried I didn't actually query Susie had reached out to me, so I got to avoid that altogether. So I thought, oh, I'm so glad I never have to query. But then how did she find that altogether? So I thought, oh, I'm so glad I never have to query. But then, yeah, of course I did have to in the end. So I had several referrals for a bunch of really great agents and I connected with a lot of them. But a lot of them weren't really really like though. There was the Bridgerton boom.
Emma Thuraut:Historical romance is still a very difficult genre and category to break out into. So you know, I had a lot of agents who really loved the writing and really like loved everything about it. But we're like I just can't. I don't know how, I don't think I'm going to be able to sell this. Like I'm worried. You know they don't want to disappoint you. So it was a bit frustrating. Like I just wanted to be like let's take the risk, though I'm willing to. You know I've I've faced rejections for a long time now, but so I was. I had already mentally moved on, I think, because that's what you do right when you face years and years of rejection, you're very good at being like, okay, moving on time to pivot again.
Emma Thuraut:But I got the email from Carrie and she had said that she was, she had been looking for a project to rep with Katie because Katie was a newer agent at the agency and that they both loved mine and would I be willing to work with them both. And I was like, of course, like that sounds wonderful. So you know, you've got Carrie with like the experience and you know the relationships with editors and the publishing industry and stuff and knowledge. And then Katie is just like young and excited Not that she needs to be young, I don't mean no ageism here, I just mean new into the industry. And so it was the best of both worlds for them.
Emma Thuraut:And so, yeah, it happened over a couple of months. But obviously anybody who's ever queried knows that it's very torturous and I used to think that sub was the worst, but I think querying might be a little tiny bit worse, because when you're on sub you at least know you've got somebody on your side in the industry, like your agent, but when you're querying you're just adrift. So yeah, it was a annoying process but I'm glad it got me where I am. That's cool.
J.D. Myall:So back to the Disney. It was a flat fee.
Emma Thuraut:I don't know how much I'm allowed to say because I did sign some stuff, but I know it was not the deal I went in thinking it would be. It was an advance in royalties, oh cool.
J.D. Myall:I didn't know that, because most people say that usually IP projects.
Emma Thuraut:Yeah, that's what I went in thinking it would be, but no, it was a more traditional or or whatever sort of deal. So I you know, I think there's advantages and disadvantages to both, obviously.
J.D. Myall:So that's cool. Love that for you.
Emma Thuraut:I mean, you know it's, it's a popular character. So for the sales, I don't want to.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, you're not crying. We'll take that as a good thing. Those are your tears. You were sipping. Yeah. So okay. So we discussed how you got your agent. We discussed the querying process. This time around, Tell me how submission went for you.
Emma Thuraut:Oh boy, yeah, so it's a. It's an interesting story because it did take. I'm sorry, can I stop you?
J.D. Myall:real quick. Do you have your query letter?
Emma Thuraut:by chance. I don't have it with me, but I could send it to you. Yeah, okay, I could send it to you. Yeah, okay, I was curious to see.
J.D. Myall:Sure, I'll send it to you Okay.
Emma Thuraut:So submission actually took a long time and it was over a year actually on sub. So you know, I didn't go into it expecting it to be fast, given my previous experience with sub, and it was a lot of the same sorts of responses that I got when querying where people love it sorts of responses that I got when querying where people love it. But you know, just because Bridgerton's doing well doesn't mean historical romance is this hot genre that everybody wants to get their hands on. So, yeah, some frustrating passes, um, but with my current we didn't end up sending it to the editor who bought it until this fall, because my agents had a meeting with Entangled where they were sort of discussing not me but what they've got, what they're looking for going forward, and somebody mentioned that my editor, aaron, is looking for historical romance. So my agents jumped on that and then it was a super quick process once that happened.
Emma Thuraut:So, even though it took a really long time, it was fast in the end. You know, like I went into Christmas knowing that an offer would be coming in January and then, like we've announced, I've seen like we have a full cover, like and it's going to come out in January. So like it's so much faster than my previous experience, where I auditioned in 2018 and it didn't come out until the end of 2020. Now it's like boom, boom, boom. Like I didn't think I'd have a book out next year because of the timelines we're normally working with, and then all of a sudden, I have one coming out in January. So yeah, so it was fast fun. I'm really excited. I love the whole team. Everybody had entangled as super, super driven, super excited about romance.
J.D. Myall:So that, love that, love that. Um, what are your plans for like launch and all that stuff?
Emma Thuraut:well. So I'm a bookseller, so, uh, part-time, so I think I'm going to do a launch at my bookstore, which will be very fun. Um, it's like a it's, it's small but I love it. So, but I was actually just discussing there's a, a bookish content creator that I'm friends with on Instagram and she was actually reaching out to me today being like I want to do a panel of romance authors from Ottawa because, although we're a small like we're not small there's a million people here. But you know, we're not like New York or like where all these like authors sort of gather, but there are actually quite a few romance authors. So I think we're going to try to time some sort of romance panel with all of us around them. So that'll be really fun. Like we've got Ruby Barrett, we've got Maggie North, who's about to debut, so we've got Amy Lee, who's amazing.
Emma Thuraut:So, yeah, it would be really fun to be able to tie a couple of different events. You know, like I haven't I haven't talked to my publicity team yet that's later this month, but I would love to do any sort of convention. Like they look so fun. I would do an event in Toronto would be really cool, because it's close enough that I can take the train and there's like a wider audience there. So, yeah, I'm open to anything. I'd love to meet readers. That's been a thing that obviously, if you debuted during the pandemic, you didn't really get to do. So it's like you feel like you missed out on a pretty, like, important and special part of an author's journey. So I'll be grateful for anything I get to do.
J.D. Myall:Have you started any swag or anything like that yet?
Emma Thuraut:Not yet, but I know I'm going to definitely want to get some bookmarks and now that I've got a cover and have seen it like, I'm hoping that I get to use elements of it, because it's just so cute. It's like a cute animated romance cover and I just love it. It's the cover of my dreams. So I am going to definitely do stuff. It's just it's hard to do anything bigger than a bookmark in Canada because once you start mailing those you know pins out or stuff like that, it gets really expensive.
J.D. Myall:Okay, so what was the hardest part of the debut process for you, the first time versus now? Like what it's a good question, surprises. Whichever way you prefer.
Emma Thuraut:So I think you know, zooming out from the pandemic and stuff like that it's I try not to tie it to that because that was difficult for in its own way, but I think it's realizing the things you can control versus the things you have absolutely no control over. And it's not always obvious and you know it's not. Um, it's a difficult thing to balance and to understand because we're so primed to be stressed about every little thing and you know we have a team around us now, but they're not, their energy is not best used telling you like it's okay, you don't need to worry about this specific thing or like this specific thing, or we're not gonna be able to make that happen for you. So I think figuring out what you can control and what you can put your energy into is really important because it's finite, you don't. You know you can't be sitting there panicking over your bad Kirkus review or whatever ends up happening. You need to focus instead on the positive.
Emma Thuraut:So, going into this debut, I've been not much more relaxed, obviously, because I think you're always going to be a little bit stressed. But it helps to know. You know what. What is, what is a big deal and what definitely isn't so I've tried to, like you know, in our discord, like not be I'm not some wise voice of reason or anything, but I. It's helpful, I think, to have somebody tell you straight up like an author and I definitely did when I was going through my first debuting um, having author friends or different people be like don't, you don't need to worry about that, that is not worth getting stressed out over.
Emma Thuraut:And and here's the things that are like you know, I was before I had um, my newsletter. I I was like okay, should I be doing this? Should I be doing this? Like now that I have this book coming out next year? And and Martha Waters, another romance author, was like you don't need to do anything. Like you don't even have a cover, you don't have I didn't even have pre-order links at the time Like. She was like you're not actually missing out on anything, you're not, you can just dial it back. And then I was like what about a newsletter? And she was like actually, because, start gathering people now, sure you're, and their expectations are not going to be like, show me the cover right away, show me like all this. So obviously in the romance writing world, newsletters are really important. I mean they're important everywhere, but romance readers really gravitate towards newsletters, so I'm really glad I started that love that, love that.
J.D. Myall:Um, let's see um. What strategies have you started as far as like building an author platform? Have you been?
Emma Thuraut:Well, definitely the newsletter. So that was, I think, important to get out of not get out of the way, but to get a footing in that world, and I put a little bit more effort into it than I would have before, I think. So I'm trying to, like, you know, plan things out, think about what readers want to see specifically from to. Like you know, plan things out, think about what readers want to see specifically from authors and, you know, not just send out like pointless newsletters, like I think a lot of authors are really really good at knowing exactly like Victoria Schwab's newsletter. Like every time I get it it's like settling in to read like the most like interesting letter your coolest friend sends you. You know, like, like. So it's just like looking at what other authors are doing really well and trying to emulate it as best as I can.
Emma Thuraut:So it's, it's important, I think, to like know what will work for you. Like you don't have to do what everyone is doing. You don't have to do all the things that you see people doing. You don't know what they've got going on in their lives or what sort of energy they can bring, but picking those little things that can work for you and then building upon them. So, like I don't want to burn out with promo long before the book comes out.
Emma Thuraut:But you know it's fun to make that little Canva post that has your release date, that you just found out and, like you know, mention that in your newsletter and stuff like that. So I'm definitely going to, I think I might do, I'm going to maybe get some art done, I think. So I'll see. I'm going to discuss with the team because I don't know what their expectations are there, but I'd really love to have some sort of print or something that I can include or at least reference back to when I talk about my book and stuff like that. Yeah, it's just, it's fun finding what works best for you, I think.
J.D. Myall:I like that. So, with your newsletter, what are the elements you think that you're thinking of including, like? Is it going to be personal narrative? Is it going to be sharing things you love?
Emma Thuraut:Yeah. So my favorite thing, my favorite newsletters, are just people talking about what they love. Like I love what people are interested in and what they're passionate about, even if it's not something that I'm interested in.
Emma Thuraut:And in fact I'd prefer it if I know nothing about it. So you know it's my last one that I just sent out. I've only done two. So my last, my first one, was sort of the here's my journey so far, like a bit longer of a version of what I've told you, and it was really interesting. Actually, after I sent it out, I got got one, two or three different emails from, or dms from, people being like oh, I'm like you know, I'm in a similar place as you were and I'm just so.
Emma Thuraut:It's so nice that you're sharing like the ups and downs, and to me it's like I wasn't trying to be particularly like open. I just that's just how I talk about it. You know I'm not going to sugarcoat, so that that pinged in my brain as like you know people, like you know authenticity, or like telling the truth about certain parts of your journey. So I'm never going to shy away from that. But I also love to just talk about the things that I love.
Emma Thuraut:So in my last one I decided that I do not not a full book club, because obviously I don't have that many readers, readers yet, but it's fun to build it up. So I'm gonna start reading like backlist romance from like legends and like the books that I missed. As you know, I didn't really start my romance reading journey until like aside from what you know, I stole from, like my mom when I was like a you know, a teenager, but my journey really began in 2020, so I feel like there's so much I missed. So I'm going to go on this little mini journey through my newsletter where I read these like amazing books that aren't, you know, being hyped about on book talk right now because they came out 20 plus years ago. So yeah, so that's going to be fun, I think, and hopefully people join in and stuff and it can become like a discussion.
J.D. Myall:I love that. That's cute. Yeah, what do you think you did right that helps you break in and become the novelist, and twice the view that you are.
Emma Thuraut:I think that the most important quality that I honed or like clung to, is persistence. You know, if you don't enter your career in 2016 and emerge in 2024 with like only one book out and like one in the works, without knowing that there were so many places where I wanted to give up, where it didn't necessarily feel worth it to me in that moment, but I never, ever, allowed myself to like I'm. I never gave myself permission to quit, even though I knew I had it. It was like no, but what? At the end of the day, what I want to do more than quit is keep going. More than quit is keep going.
Emma Thuraut:So I knew that I had to want it more than I wanted, Like I had to want to write more than I wanted to be published. So that was important to me and if that ever changed, if I ever decided, you know, the writing isn't fun anymore or I can't, I can't do this anymore, then I would have quit. So persistence is like such an underrated quality, I think, to have in this industry and to any creative industry, because there's so many no's along the way, there's so much that can derail a career. So, yeah, it's just deciding. It's worth it to keep going and that you are passionate about what you're doing. So every time I've talked about it with with friends like, or with readers that's that's what I say Like you have to want it so bad that you don't mind the hard parts.
J.D. Myall:What are the core elements of a successful novel Like what do you think makes a good book?
Emma Thuraut:I think that the most important is not necessarily your craft on a prose level, it's the inability for a reader to put a book down, and you can't really teach that. You can try, you can get better at it, of course, like once you're anffable quality. You know like people love to complain about some of these really popular book talk books because they're not well-written. But what I think that a lot of people don't realize is that there's so much more to writing than just having beautiful prose and those authors are succeeding at a really difficult part of writing and that's hooking readers from the start and like not letting let, not letting them, let go until the end. So if that's something that I can improve upon, I would love to improve upon that, because you can't teach it. I don't think it's like you need to read a lot to try to break down what they're doing right and at the end the day, these are just authors for whom that talent is like a very natural part of their process, I think.
J.D. Myall:I love that. What makes a good villain?
Emma Thuraut:What makes a good villain or antagonist? Yeah, yeah, I think you know it's cliche at this point, but it's that they're not the villain in their own story. Like they, their drive is so compelling and it's almost that you want. You want to be able to understand the villain. You're not supporting them, but I love a villain, where I'm reading it and I'm like, yes, like this makes sense, this is earned. This sort of like antagonism between the characters is believable. So you want a real person or creature or whatever, but they have to like earn their villainy. So I love it when it makes sense. So a cartoonish villain is not my favorite type of villain, but obviously they have their place as well.
J.D. Myall:And what makes a good protagonist.
Emma Thuraut:Somebody that you can't let go of. I don't like Susie Townsend. My old agent always says that she'll follow a good character anywhere, and I think that that's just such a true sentiment for any reader who's ever enjoyed a book Like you know. You can be sitting there and you can. You can be terrified of where we might end up, or you know like just dreading what could come, but you're like no, I'm with this character.
J.D. Myall:I'm I'll go anywhere with them, Like that's just. I would be on this journey with them if I could Hold on. I'm going to stop recording real quick, Okay. So how do you avoid?
Emma Thuraut:this saggy middle. How do you keep readers engaged throughout the whole novel? Oh boy, I think for me following a structure is important. So I do use the save the cat beat sheet. I do it loosely, like I'm not married to it, and if something needs to change that's fine.
Emma Thuraut:But that's helped me in the past and I think that a lot of writers just naturally write using like a mental beat sheet. Like the first time I encountered Save the Cat was when I was writing the book that we the very first book we tried to sell, and I had already written like half or two thirds of it, and so when I was going through the beat sheet I realized I had hit a lot of those notes already. So it's like a very it can be a very natural process, but it's also it's a great thing to hold your hand to, because you know Writing a book is hard and I never learned how to do it like I did go to my high school. My high school was an arts high school and I went for writing. But you know, nobody can teach you in high school or like even some university programs like how to sit down and write a novel, because it's such a personal experience. So I think Save the Cat was great for me, but I know a lot of authors who use like the five act structure or like three act structure. So it's not leaning on these things, but it's using them when you know it can be helpful.
Emma Thuraut:So if you're in a point with the sagging middle and you're like you know what am I supposed to do next, I think that finding that corresponding thing and save the cat and you can twist it too. You know it doesn't have to, you don't have to follow it exactly, but, uh, it's if it was natural for us as a writer. I think it's natural for a reader to to read it and have certain expectations. So it can be really helpful. So that's what I rely on. Um, and also, just like you know, if it's not working for me as I'm writing, I have to then grapple with the idea that I've done something wrong. You know, back down the line and I have to go back and figure out where the wrong turn was. So it's just listening to my instincts about story and being like OK, I have to admit to myself that if this is hard to write in this way, I must have done something wrong.
J.D. Myall:And how do you come up with a satisfying conclusion, like how do you end your stories?
Emma Thuraut:Oh man, I think it's the. As a reader, I always want more um at the end of my favorite books, so it's finding the balance between giving like the satisfying end but also just like just a little bit more Like. I don't know if you've read, I just watched the Idea of you, that Anne Hathaway movie, and I don't want to spoilers or whatever, but in the movie it has a quite happy ending. But I got the book, I went to work the next day and immediately bought the book and started reading it, and the book apparently does not have that happy ending. So I think it's going to be a really interesting study.
Emma Thuraut:In contrast, because the book had such a devoted following even without the happy ending. So I'm really intrigued to read how she makes it end and then how the movie did it as well. So I think you just have to it's. I hate to talk about earning things again, but, like it is just, you can write the ending that you've earned, as as throughout the rest rest of the book, so you're giving them what they want, but it's so I think it's so important to just leave a little bit more so that the reader can fill in the blanks, kind of, as to what they wanted the ending to be as well love that, love that, love that.
J.D. Myall:All right, I'm gonna backtrack a little, because I should have asked you this earlier. Um, you talked about the submission process. What was your editor call like? Was it on Zoom? Was it on the phone?
Emma Thuraut:I have not had an editor call. Actually it happened around Christmas, so I think it was just such a crazy part of the season. So I knew that I was told that I'd get an offer in January. And then in January I got the offer. And then I you know in our long emails to each other, since that's when we've talked but I did not have an editor call right away. So I am having a call soon, so hopefully I'll get some more info then but yeah in her emails.
Emma Thuraut:She's effusive, she's great, she's like super solid, she's effusive, she's great, she's like super solid. I feel very lucky to have her because I, you know, like I did study history, so I am like very particular about getting things right. And even with all that attention, I still got forms of address wrong in, like Victorian England and stuff like that, and she's very well versed in that.
J.D. Myall:So she's like the perfect partner and stuff like that and she's very well versed in that, so she's like the perfect partner. I love that. Yeah, and you know, you're probably fortunate because when I had my call, I froze like a deer in headlights. Oh my God, I would have too. Thank God Susie was on the call so she could take up some of that. Yeah, and I interviewed people all the time. That's what the agent is good for. I've even interviewed celebrities and stuff. Perfectly fine, but because this was such a lifelong dream and she had the power to get to me or not, I froze Wow.
Emma Thuraut:I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's more common than we think Mouth wide waiting for the finest, not my finest, moment.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, I would be the exact same way, but at least now you can go yeah, at least now you can go with the confidence that you already have the deal, you know exactly, so you can have a normal conversation yeah what has been your biggest surprise so far?
Emma Thuraut:um with the publishing journey my biggest surprise, just how um fulfilling it becomes when you, when you hear from readers like I knew that obviously that would be a really enjoyable part of the process. But you know, writing an iconic character like Belle, you know people have a lot of expectations going in. So I sort of hardened myself before it came out where I was, like you know, I I wrote the book I wanted to write and I'm proud of it. But like, obviously she's a character that so many people have loved for so long. Like I'm going to disappoint some people and so that was my attitude going in. Like it's okay if people are disappointed, and so I didn't leave room to expect that some people would still really like it, didn't leave room to expect that some people would still really like it. So hearing from them has just been so amazing. And like people who get what I was doing with Belle. So that has been just such a heartwarming part of the process.
Emma Thuraut:And you like to think like I'm so hard, I don't need, like I don't need people to approve of it or whatever. But then you get that DM from a reader. That's just like you know, you wrote bell exactly how I imagined her, or you did this or whatever like that, and it's like, okay, it's that connection that we're all looking for, right, like the way that you read a book and you read one line in a book and it just reaches into your exact experience and you're like, okay, I'm not alone. So, having read, having been a reader my whole life and had having those moments, it's so amazing when you realize that you can have that moment as a writer. So I've loved that.
J.D. Myall:And what tips do you have for historical romance writers?
Emma Thuraut:Oh boy, okay. Well, I think the biggest one is that you have to have more than one idea, because romance readers are voracious. So my book deal is a three book deal Because I it's in the same vein as Bridgerton. It's going to follow the siblings in a family. Siblings in a family, um, and yeah. So it's such a vibrant and like excited community that you're gonna want to read a lot of romance, like in every sub-genre contemporary sci-fi, like everything, um, get your footing in it. So I think that you know, when I read 70 plus in a row, like that was like my education in it really quick.
Emma Thuraut:And I was only really able to do that because of the pandemic so small silver lining and to just like it's such a beautiful community that I think you need to put yourself out there so early with other writers of romance because they're they're your peers and with romance, you know, with the events, the signings, the things like that, like you find your community there and, um, just reaching out to people that you admire and respect, like I can't believe some of the people that I consider friends now after reading their gorgeous, beautiful books, um, so it's, it's really a community-based, uh, genre and category, so with readers and writers. So you know, I've been looking at conventions now, just sort of getting an idea of them and it's just it's amazing how they come together and they'll bring hundreds of authors in and thousands of readers and it's just so different. It's not different from YA, it's just they know what they're doing with romance. Conventions and like YA can sort of be hard to like. Y'all Fest and Y'all West are great and stuff like that but I just feel like they've got it down in the romance community and it just really highlights how important it is to develop these relationships with your peers and with readers as well. So you have to be open to that. So for historical romance specifically, though, I think readers are very discerning.
Emma Thuraut:I've seen a lot of reviews now that I'm like looking into this world and people can be very particular about how modern characters can seem like I. There's so many authors I love and whose books I love but who get sort of trashed for writing like overtly feminist characters sometimes, you know, and people are like, well, that's not how Victorian women were or that's not how. So it's important, I think, to do your research so that you understand that, though they were different, there were definitely feminist women in Victorian and Regency England and their, their stories were important. So I think it's finding the realism um, I've Sarah McClain has talked about this where she says, like you know, all of all of her characters have a basis in reality. She's not inventing feminism, for for the reason it's like these women have always existed. So it's doing your research.
Emma Thuraut:But it's also just understanding that, much like with Rebel Rose and a character that's iconic as Belle, you can't please everybody. So you can tie yourself up into knots about getting everything perfect, but at the end of the day, one reader is going to absolutely love what you did and another one's going to trash it. So it's feeling comfortable with the research that you do, with the work you put into it and just letting go at the end of the day. So I did as much research as I could, I put as much history into it as I could, but I wanted my characters to live and breathe as well.
Emma Thuraut:So I didn't want to be tied down too tightly to conventions that won't speak to a modern reader, but I also didn't want to disrespect history, you know. So it's finding a balance there. But I I love watching every movie I can get my hands on set in that timeframe and reading books written by contemporary, at the time, authors to get a real feel for how things were. So it's sort of like immersing yourself into as much of that world as you can and then just doing what you want, what you want with it.
J.D. Myall:So I love that. What does your writing process look like now?
Emma Thuraut:I have to not be a slow writer anymore. I'm very I'm a perfectionist, so it tends to take me a very long time to get a first draft done. But then my editing process is pretty straightforward. So it's like you know, it's either going to be I'm going to write a trash draft and then edit it forever, or my way, which is like, keep going, I, I rewrite and rewrite, so so constantly. You know, like my writing sessions, when I sit down it's like reading everything I've written up until that point and then starting it.
Emma Thuraut:So it can be, it can become quite slow, but I do then, like I said, emerge with a pretty clean draft. So I just have to somehow keep doing that but also write faster. So you know, like I said, the romance timeline is quite quick. So I have to write book two in the next couple of months and I'm hoping that just by sheer force of will I can change the way I've written for so long. I did write Rebel Rose rather quickly, so I know I can do it. So I just have to put it into practice now.
J.D. Myall:Did Rebel Rose sell on proposal or did you have to write? Or did you write the full page?
Emma Thuraut:no, so I auditioned with um. I think what I was told was 10,000 words or three chapters, and I wrote a prologue plus three chapters and submitted that and then, yeah, it's IP. Yeah, I didn't know.
J.D. Myall:Rebel Rose was IP. That's cool. Who was it? Through Disney, okay, okay, I knew the first one was Disney, but the second one I didn't. Oh, it's Disney, yeah, so.
Emma Thuraut:Rebel Rose is my Disney book, and then A Lady Would Know Better is my romance. Okay, so that one. I wrote the whole thing and sold it like that. And then Rebel Rose was the audition one. So, okay, yeah, yeah, but this one, no, the historical romance I wrote the whole thing and then I had pretty extensive pitches for books two and three, and then that's why I think they bought all three, but in a perfect world.
J.D. Myall:I'll be able to write all the siblings in the series, and that would be six books. So we'll see Awesome.
Emma Thuraut:Thank you, I love it.
J.D. Myall:So you're loving the Disney life right now, which is a good thing.
Emma Thuraut:I you know it came out a while ago, so we do have. Since mine came out first. We've had a Mulan book in the same series by Livia Blackburn, and Alexandra Munir wrote the Jasmine book which came out last year and this year. Sarah Rash is well, it's already done. Obviously her Sleeping Beauty book is coming out, so hopefully I'll get to write more in the series, but you know it's out of my hands. But I definitely have ideas.
J.D. Myall:Out of curiosity and you cannot answer. If you can't answer, do they give you guys any theme park perks, like do you get free tickets? No, I wish.
Emma Thuraut:Alex got to do a fun event last year where she spoke at Disney World. So you know, I think there's stuff like that, but I've never been to Disney World or land, so maybe I'll email my editor if I'm ever planning to go be like, hey, any chance? Yeah, no. I wish.
J.D. Myall:Which is easier for you writing an original idea or doing IP, where they provide the idea.
Emma Thuraut:Original for sure, because with the IP, even though I was able to change it so much to what I envisioned the story being, it's still at the end of the day, it's not my characters, it's not. I did get to write new characters, obviously in the book, and so there was like the opportunity to be creative and original in that way. But yeah, at the end of the day it's like a tale as old as time. I didn't invent it, so I do love writing my own books, but writing IP was such a fun challenge that I I have nothing against it and would definitely do it again.
Emma Thuraut:But what's interesting is that I've never written fan fiction, so I never did. I never read it. Growing up I didn't write it. I'm a little bit too married to the idea that the author is the only one that can tell me about these characters, but I respect it immensely and I know that it's been such a pivotal part of a lot of people's writing journeys has been writing fanfic first and then obviously. Obviously it's pretty funny to me that my first published novel is essentially sanctioned fanfiction.
J.D. Myall:I was just going to say. What's funny too, is how common IP is. Yeah, but most people don't realize that it's like a part of publishing, but it's how a lot of authors break in.
Emma Thuraut:Oh, absolutely yeah and not even you know, it's not even characters that we know. It's like in-house IP, where the editor comes up with an idea and then yeah, so it's very cool. I think Whatever opportunity you can take to break into the industry, I think is a great one.
J.D. Myall:Exactly. Just yesterday I interviewed an author who her book is getting made into a Netflix series and it was IP and she has like tons and tons of books now. So you know Exactly, wouldn't have known that, you know it's IP, but she was saying that IP has helped her keep the lights on because she does her original ideas but she does IP every year. She's doing both amazing yeah, yeah.
Emma Thuraut:No, I had such a great experience and like it was only, I think you know, through the pandemic, the uncertainties of the pandemic, that really like slowed us down a little bit, like we had to delay book two and stuff like that with the series. So I am hope I got. I would love to write more for it. So it really depends on if people keep reading the series. So it's been. The cool thing is that it's been translated in so many different languages and you know it's gone on a journey that I don't know that my first book, if it wasn't IP, would have gone on. So that's a really cool thing too is like hearing from Portuguese readers and Spanish readers, french readers, german readers, so that that that's really fun as well what would you like to talk about that we haven't covered?
Emma Thuraut:I think you've done a really great job, so I don't know that there's anything that we haven't discussed. Uh, it's been a great interview, so, um well, I mean, I'd not that it's part of the interview, but I'd love to know, like, what's your book, your book about?
J.D. Myall:My book is it's YA, it's a romantic, it's like it's got time travel. It's like Outlander meets the night circus and it's easy. Oh my God, those are amazing comps. Yeah, these two warring magical families and stuff like that. Oh, what's the title? Right now it's Heart's Gambit. I don't know if that's what they're going to keep or not yet, because we haven't got that far in. I love the title. Thank you, I'm coming out. Fall of next year.
Emma Thuraut:Oh, my God, that's so exciting. I can't wait to read it. When are you coming out exactly? What's the exact date? January 28th, okay, yeah, and I'm proposal and we're going to go on out on proposal with the romanticist, so fingers crossed, but an adult one.
J.D. Myall:So yay, romanticist seems to be very hot right now.
Emma Thuraut:Yeah, exactly, and, like I, you know, there's expectations in the adult romanticist world, um, in terms of like spice level and stuff like that. And so I'm I'm grateful that I've already written my romance novel, my historical romance, and now I feel a little bit more confident in that realm. So, you know, obviously not every romance, see books, needs to have that, but I, just as a reader, that's what I gravitate towards, so that's what I'm hoping to achieve.
J.D. Myall:That's awesome. So what's the Canada writing community like?
Emma Thuraut:Well, we're so. We're such a large country so it's very hard to be super close. You know, like, if there's an event in Toronto I can sometimes it's four hours away, so it's not that close but I have gone. You know, when writing friends have had their events in Toronto, it's like a nice opportunity to go and meet them. So you know, I went and met Victoria Aveyard in Toronto a couple years ago and, like, my friend Alwyn Hamilton was there a few years ago. So I try to take that opportunity when I can.
Emma Thuraut:Um, but you know, ottawa has its own sort of right now the Ottawa International Writers Fest is going on and they don't really do a lot of YA or sort of romance events. So let's hope we change that. But the bookstore I work at like provides the books for it and stuff. So I feel pretty connected to the writing community, even if it's not like in the way that I would love, you know, like if we could do romance panels and stuff like that. So that's why I'm so happy that you know readers, people the girl I was talking to earlier taking the initiative to sort of like pitch these kinds of events because there's an audience for it and like, like I said, there's like six of us who live in Ottawa, so we absolutely should be joining forces and doing stuff like that.
Emma Thuraut:But the other great thing about Ottawa is that I am pretty close to New York and stuff. So not that I've had the opportunity to, but you know, when I was going to go to BEA and stuff, it wouldn't be quite the journey like that it would be if I was on like the West coast or something so. But I did get to go to um Comic-Con, san Diego Comic-Con, a couple years ago for Rebel Rose, like we did a Disney thing. So that was amazing and has like totally convinced me that if I'm ever asked if I want to do things like that, I absolutely want to do them forever, going forward like however difficult it might make a travel day or something like I would go yeah, difficult it might make a travel day or something like I would go.