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Craft Chat Chronicles
Craft Chat Chronicles
Episode 8: Navigating the Writing World: Author Denny S. Bryce and Literary Agent Eric Smith on MFA's, Craft and Career
Ever wondered how fan fiction could pave the way to a bestselling author career? Tune into this inspiring double episode of Craft Chat Chronicles as we sit down with the multifaceted Denny S. Bryce, who transitioned from running a PR and marketing firm to becoming a celebrated author and faculty member at Drexel University. Denny takes us through her early days writing "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" fan fiction, her journey to finding an agent, and the invaluable lessons she imparts to her MFA students about visibility and branding. Whether you're an aspiring author or a seasoned writer, Denny’s insights and experiences offer a wealth of knowledge to fuel your own literary aspirations.
Struggling with sagging middles or crafting that perfect ending? This episode covers those challenges and more. We break down the crucial differences between nonfiction and fiction proposals, shedding light on why debut fiction writers typically need a completed manuscript before pitching. Get the lowdown on the benefits of MFA programs, including the critique and workshopping process, and the importance of diverse feedback. With practical advice on what makes a manuscript’s first-page pop, this segment is a treasure trove of actionable tips for writers at every stage.
Finally, join us as literary agent Eric Smith shares his expertise on high-concept romances and market trends. From intentional world-building to understanding your target audience, this segment is packed with essential advice for avoiding common pitfalls new writers face. Hear Smith’s personal stories of perseverance, along with recommendations for valuable resources to help you navigate your writing journey. Plus, discover the unique opportunities within MFA programs and the challenges of maintaining critique partnerships post-graduation. This episode promises to be an enriching experience for anyone passionate about the craft of writing.
Keywords:
fan fiction, bestselling author, Denny S. Bryce, literary agent, interview, Eric Smith, Craft Chat Chronicles, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, writing journey, PR to published, MFA programs, manuscript tips, visibility, writing tips, writing life, branding, fiction proposals, critique process, high-concept, romance, world-building, market trends, writing advice, aspiring authors, literary success, marketing, publishing
Commercial before HG release.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast for tips on crafting best-selling fiction. At Craft Chat Chronicles, we bring you expert interviews, insights and tips on writing, publishing and marketing. Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey. Join the conversation and embark on a new chapter in your writing journey. For workshops, show notes and more information, visit jdmayalcom.
J.D. Myall:That's jdmayalcom On today's double episode of Craft Chat Chronicles. We'll have a brief chat with author Denny S Bryce, author of titles like Can't we Be Friends, the Other Princess, wild Women in the Blues and many more. Denny will talk about her writing and publishing journey. She'll speak about being a member of Drexel's faculty and a little bit about the MFA process, author marketing, and then she'll give you some brief facts on her novel Can't we Be Friends. And then after that, we'll go into a deeper dive of demystifying the MFA process and talking about the thesis packet and writing, craft and publishing and market trends with author and agent.
Denny S. Bryce:Eric Smith, better known as Eric Smith Rocks. Stay tuned, you're in for a great show. How are you today? Welcome, denny, I am fantastic. How are you doing today?
J.D. Myall:I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Can you tell everybody a little bit about your publishing journey and how you came to Drexel and all that good stuff?
Denny S. Bryce:I certainly can, because I love talking about myself. Well, I'll say this because it is a long journey. I started writing for fun when I was running my PR and marketing firm and that was around the turn of the century, around 2000. And I was a big fan of a TV show, a TV show by the name of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So when I came home after traveling or doing whatever I did with my marketing and PR day job or day company, I would write fan fiction and I was a big fan of the show, as I mentioned, and I just got into it. And then one of the writers because we all wrote online with you know mysterious names, you know pen names and what have you. But one of the writers was a gal who was in an organization called Romance Writers of America and she suggested to me that I join her on one of her you know annual conferences. And I did, had a great time hung out with writers there and then started hanging out with writers in my backyard. At the time I was living in Washington DC. Now I live in Savannah, but I joined some chapters, some writing groups and what have you.
Denny S. Bryce:But I really wasn't committed to writing professionally, to writing professionally because I had a big company to run and I was busy, busy, busy. But then I got obsessed with writing and I wanted to do it better, I wanted to do it more and I had an opportunity to enter a bunch of contests and I started winning contests and that sort of gave me a little bit of confidence and from there I found an agent in 2016. So you see, I spent a lot of years, you know, then in 2000, and I think it was the year after I got an agent, I decided that I wanted to write, I wanted to be a full-time author. So I put the whole both my feet in the pond, so to speak, and retired from the world of full-time marketing and PR so that I had more time to write. And that's when I sold my first book in 2019. It was called. It is called over there there's a poster called Wild Women in the Blues. Then I went from there to several other books and now next Tuesday I have another book coming out.
Denny S. Bryce:But as part of that journey I also had met Anne Garvin, of several years in there. Someplace. She was teaching something in Philly. I got to hang out with her and that group that was there. That included Know Me, eve. That's all copywriters. Is that what you're referring to? Oh, absolutely and so.
Denny S. Bryce:But this is when I was pre-published. I was still just sort of like just traveling around the globe trying to find writing classes and what have you, and that relationship was just so important because I kept track of both of these women over the years and then, when the opportunity came for me to join Tall Poppies, I also got involved with working with Nomi and Drexel University. I've been working with Drexel, I'd say, for three years approximately, maybe a little longer, and it's been a very rewarding experience and I'm looking forward to continuing to teach the class and also do the coaching. I love interacting one on one with MFA students. It's just really a joyful opportunity to work with young writers, and age is not what I'm talking about, it's just you know where you are in the journey, so to speak.
J.D. Myall:So, with your history in marketing, when you look at your students, what tips do you usually give them on marketing themselves as a writer?
Denny S. Bryce:Interestingly enough, one of my first classes for Drexel was a class on marketing for authors and right away, I'm a big fan of visibility. In this day and age, if you are intending to have others read your book and buy your books, whether you choose the indie path or the traditional path to publication, People got to know you. You got to find your brand and then have visibility, and you don't necessarily have to wait until the day you sell your book To me. Once your commitment is there for your career, start building your brand, start your website, communicate, find a format, a platform or two or three that you enjoy. I think that's a first step. You, in the early stages of marketing and public relations as an author, don't get into something that feels overwhelming and in this day and age. At the same time, don't turn your back on social media because you feel uncomfortable. It's part of what we have to do.
J.D. Myall:Love that. When you're looking at your students' work in the packet exchanges, what are the areas that it seems like students struggle the most with and how could they improve?
Denny S. Bryce:Well, I will be quite frank that it's different for every student and that's honestly the way I feel. There's no cut and dry, one path problem for any student that they're committed to and working with them to enhance where they are versus change what they're trying to accomplish. I think that's critical with writing because it's such an organic place. As an artist, you are an artist and trying to tell an artist what their art should be is not my job. My role in that communication is to really um, encourage support and, yeah, if there's a grammar thing, we can work on that. If there's a structure, a story structure thing, we will work on that. If there's a structure, a story structure thing, we will work on that.
Denny S. Bryce:If we want, if you are looking by the end of your MFA program, to get your work out and find if you're going traditional to an agent, if and how do you shape your, your game plan, if you're going indie, because that's still running your own business. So those are the sort of interactions I like to have with students that I coach. We're going to work on that project so that you know that um thesis, whatever you want to call it, your story, so that when it's ready for when it's being called for for submissions, it's ready. But we're also talking about your industry, your career, what's going on in publishing that I like to share with people, since I'm, you know, as a book critic and some of the other things that I do. I'm very much about having authors be very in touch and in tune with the industry, and it's not about following trends. It's about understanding what's going on in the marketplace.
J.D. Myall:And what is going on in the marketplace right now? Any tips for?
Denny S. Bryce:people Any tips? It's dominated a lot. I'd say create a vision board. I'm very much a fan of a vision board.
Denny S. Bryce:If the New York Times is on your vision board, look at what is happening there and not redo what you're doing to match what it's doing, but understand it's cyclical. I mean six months ago on the New York Times bestseller list you saw Colleen Hoover over and over and over again. Now you're seeing the romantic romantic is what they're calling it. But romance, fantasy or romantic fantasy has been around forever. But when something catches and there's a new catch word to define it like romanticy, there's that popularity that's happening. And you're seeing in traditional fiction more and more um, um, you know editors and and and your big five and whomever's out there buying Romantici.
Denny S. Bryce:But there's a focus on debut authors. Debut authors are an opportunity for publishing to put a big push behind a new author that doesn't have a track record that's a little fuzzy or messy unless you do things. There's been one author that sort of messed up that opportunity but she's a YA author. I won't go into that but um, so those opportunities are there. Um, for indie authors. Understand the business of that end of being in indie publishing. Yes, you must write your best possible book, but you also must understand how to launch that book. You also must pull together a team of professionals who can help you put out the best product possible. I interact with quite a few indie authors and there's great opportunity out there, especially if you're a romance writer, especially if you're a fantasy writer, especially if you're writing contemporary, heartfelt contemporary with romance elements. So knowing genres and being nosy online about what's happening in publishing will help.
J.D. Myall:I love that. Why should students choose an MFA program and why Drexel?
Denny S. Bryce:Well, everything that I know about Drexel is one. It's just one of the top MFA programs out there. Number one you want a top program, one that's respected, one that, if you name drop, people are sitting back. Oh, I love that when it happens. Oh, I'm an adjunct professor at Drexel. Oh yeah, understanding what are the best paths to need to use to be a success.
J.D. Myall:I love that. I love that. I love that your new title that's coming out. Can't we Be Friends? In closing, can you push that so they can race to the bookstores and buy it, Because this will come out after the fifth. It comes out in a few days.
Denny S. Bryce:We're very excited. This is my first co-authored book, so the name of the book is Can't we Be Friends, but it's the story of the friendship between Ella Fitzgerald and Marilyn Monroe, and my friend, eliza Knight and I started working on this book in 2019. And so actually, we just recorded an interview for like five minutes before I got in talking with you. So we're very excited about the book. We're very excited that it's about to be released. We worked on it for five years, we sold it, and so happy days Was that hard.
Denny S. Bryce:Co-writing Co-writing is different. It is a challenge. Now Eliza has many more books than I do. I have five books out now, with this one or with the next one, and she has maybe 60. Okay, so there are. She has a style, a work style. I have a work style, but the fact that we were able to focus on story and merge our goals for the book helped us make it a more seamless process, because I can imagine that sometimes it can get pretty hairy Because I write I'm a slow writer, she's a fast writer, I'm a. You know I will noodle something and I really like playing with themes. I have more of a literary vet. She has a lot of romance background, so meshing those two areas was something we were very effective at doing, but we both understood what type of work we were looking to deliver to readers.
J.D. Myall:Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you and thank you for having me and I hope this worked out. It did it did. Today we're going to be talking to Eric Smith. Eric Smith rocks, A renowned literary agent with PS Literary. He's an author of titles like With or Without you and he's an educator at Drexel University. Today, Eric will be helping us demystify the packet exchange process. He'll offer craft advice and insight to help you elevate your writing. Welcome, Eric.
Eric Smith:Hey, thanks for having me.
J.D. Myall:You actually spoke when I graduated at Drexel, oh excellent. You weren't teaching a class yet, though, so I didn't get to be in your class.
Eric Smith:Oh, yes, I remember that. Uh, there was a at the push to publish thing, right? Yeah, oh, excellent.
J.D. Myall:What factors do you think prospective students should consider when choosing an MFA writing program?
Eric Smith:Ooh, I mean, I always. So you know I I'm very fortunate that I have a lot of friends who are aspiring writers who ask for advice. Pretty often it's kind of what happens when you're the literary agent in the group of friends. I always tell them to make sure you're researching the teachers in the program right, like you're. That's, that's the thing you're looking for. You're looking for the professors who actually have the experience, who have been published, who work in the industry, who are still actively doing those things. They're going to give you advice. That's, I guess, applicable and relevant to what you're pursuing. So take a look at the teachers. I feel like Drexel is pretty fortunate with the wonderful faculty that we have there, that's for sure.
J.D. Myall:Very true, Very true. Oh well, no, I'll stay in order. I'll come to that. I was going to. Well, I might as well jump. I already jumped. You do these workshops on your website sometimes and you had one for nonfiction proposals. Are you going to do one for fiction proposals?
Eric Smith:No know, I haven't done one for fiction proposals, um, mostly because I think if you are writing fiction, uh, and you're a debut author, the book has to be finished, right, so there's almost no point to do a fiction proposal. Non-fiction is different where, like, if you're writing non-fiction and you're an expert in your field, you can pitch on proposal where it's just the not quite finished manuscript and the idea, because the publisher is supposed to give you an advance so you can finish your book and do your research. So probably not yet, but I do do query letter workshops, which I think are sometimes helpful.
J.D. Myall:OK, cool. How do workshops and MFA programs function and what are the benefits and challenges to that model?
Eric Smith:I mean it depends on the MFA program, you know, but for the most part it's a lot of sharing and critique and back and forth. Right, You're swapping your manuscript or sometimes short stories and essays, depending on what you're doing with your critique partners, with your professors, and just polishing it up as much as you can, while learning a lot along the way. You know, I love it when I get an MFA student who wants to write children's books, for example. You know, I occasionally get someone who's writing a middle grade book or a young adult book and I'm reading their prose and it's feeling way more adult, you know. So there's that fun extra benefit of saying, well, here here's some homework, here's some novels that I love, here's some things that have inspired me, here's some craft books. So you're you're learning along the way and figuring out where your voice belongs and how to hone your voice as you're doing that.
Eric Smith:Critique and and workshopping Love that. How does the package exchange process work for you, from the moment of introduction to the student to the last their packet in progress. Sometimes it's a chapter, Sometimes it's the entirety of the packet, Sometimes it's a whole 25,000 words, Depends on where we're at and we just we go back and forth. You know I give it a look, I check out their edits, I check out what they recently written. I give them lots of notes, I send it back to them. I usually give them a week to sort of I don't know take in all the edits and read through them and develop questions and then we have a check-in. You know I'm hopping on a Zoom or a phone call or, if the student happens to live in Philly, meeting in person like every three weeks to chat over and answer any questions that they've got. You know I sort of firmly approach it from the perspective of this is their book, this is their story.
Eric Smith:I'm just trying to help them tell the best version of it right, so like if the edits don't work for you, it's okay, it's all right, we're not going to have a problem, but ideally I'm helping you get it in the shape that will one day get it published.
J.D. Myall:Love that too. So in a situation with yourself, how would you, what advice would you have students in helping the process run smoothly, and you know making and helping themselves get the best and the most out of it.
Eric Smith:Just be as open to criticism as you can be. I know it can be hard. I know it can feel oh goodness, it can feel like an attack on who you are. Sometimes, you know like I write very personal stories. Sometimes when I get critiques on them I'm like hey, you don't know me, you know, but we are trying to tell you we are trying to help you tell the best version of your story.
Eric Smith:We're trying to help you tell the best version of your story. Also, get critiques and get workshops outside of working with your professor and outside of your potential cohort Right. Turn to your friends. You know like it's. It's not just a a bubble where you're only working with potentially me or potentially the couple of friends in your MFA program. Look elsewhere to work with your friends. I can't tell you how much getting that outside perspective can can really help.
J.D. Myall:Now with my packet exchange. Like I found all the teachers incredibly helpful Sadiqa Johnson was really really good with like developmental edits and Heather Christie was really good with detail and helping you bring out the setting. What do you think your strengths are as a packet exchange teacher?
Eric Smith:Oh I mean.
Eric Smith:I think my strengths are certainly voice. You know, in my agent life I work on children's books, I work on adult books, I work on lit fic, I work on fantasy, I work on sci-fi I work all over the place. So I'm really in tune with what voice should feel like based on the genre or category that you're writing in. Um, I, I'm also a bit of a brat when it comes to things like world building and motivation. So, like you're gonna get some nitty-gritty sort of complainy questions from me when you're working on a book that has, you know, high fantasy elements or big world building bits, I'm gonna ask a lot of whys uh, and it might get annoying, uh, but remember there has to be a reason for for everything.
Eric Smith:Um, you know, I I once went to a a book launch for a fantasy author friend of mine and she was talking about how, when she was working with her editor on her fantasy novel, her editor kept asking her questions like well, why can this person do this magic? Or why are there two moons in the sky? Or why is water doing x and y? And her answer was always just like, well, just because it's not a reason, right, you can't do that. That's not okay. That's why that editor ripped apart that book and why that book turned out to be so great later.
J.D. Myall:So, uh, yeah, gonna ask a lot of wise in your view, what are the elements that make a first page of a manuscript stand out?
Eric Smith:oh, a first page. Oh, that's so hard. Um, oh boy, so first page. I think the the big thing I look for in a first page is voice, right, so like I can tell right away if the voice isn't right for the category or the genre or what the story they're trying to tell. Um, that's the thing that's going to stand out the most to me. Um, it's a little different when you talk about like first chapters, right, because like first chapters, you're looking for stakes motivation. You're looking to get to first chapters. You're looking for stakes motivation. You're looking to get to know the character. You're looking to get grounded in the setting. You're looking for all those big things. But that first page, that first impression, it's, it's voice for sure.
J.D. Myall:Yeah, how do you suggest students avoid the saggy middle?
Eric Smith:Oh no, that's a hard question because I get to that in every single one of my books, every book that I write. When I'm at about like 35,000 words, that's when I'm like I've never written a book before. I don't know what I'm doing anymore. This is terrible.
Eric Smith:I think the thing that helps is your critique partners, and it's your cohort, it's your friends that are reading it, it's the professor you're working with. You know, when you're outside of the program, it's certainly just your critique partners, because they're the ones that are going to give you the kick in the pants that says you know, keep going, like there's something here you need to keep going. When you're going on your own and you're hitting that middle point, it's really hard to find that motivation to keep going at it. And I hit that middle point with every book I write, and that's usually the point where I turn to my critique partners. I'm like, hey, is there something here? Should I keep going? Like, do I scrap this and work on something else? And sometimes I get brutally honest feedback and that's why there's a lot of half-finished books on my hard drive. You need that. You need that.
J.D. Myall:What can you tell writers about crafting a compelling ending?
Eric Smith:I think the best endings don't try to tie everything up in a little bow right Like it can be really tempting to be like all right, I got to the ending.
Eric Smith:Now here's an epilogue where I show everybody being happy. Or you know, here's, here's a, here's a wedding scene one year later, and like you don't always need that. You know, like real life doesn't always end in a nice shiny bow. Uh, so stick to what feels real right. Stick to what you feel like would actually happen. Like I don't know, I always struggle with a book where, like the main character isn't like a race or something and at the end they win. Really, that doesn't happen all the time. Like second place is still okay. You know, like I try to stick with the realism. Your readers will appreciate it. They won't feel like they're being pandered to. You know, I just recently did a podcast where we were talking about the endings to some of my books and, like I stick with the realistic endings with my books and some people don't like that. But I don't know, that's, that's what life is like.
J.D. Myall:What makes a good villain?
Eric Smith:Oh, a good villain has good motivation, like they think they are the good guy in their own story. Right, that's what a good villain is.
J.D. Myall:Um, I'm like looking at my own books again. I'm like who?
Eric Smith:are the bad guys in my books. Ah, like, like I in one of my books. You can go your way. It's a cute little rom-com for the most part, but one of the characters, her father, is like a tech mogul with tons of money who thinks he's a good guy because he's restoring buildings and he's buying properties and he's putting new things in there. But he's actually gentrifying neighborhoods and he's not really welcome in these spaces. But he doesn't know that. You know, he thinks he's the good guy. He thinks he's the good guy, he thinks he's doing something right. Uh, so a good villain thinks they're doing the right thing.
Eric Smith:Um, I feel like marvel movies do a really good job of this. I don't know, I don't know who my, who, my fellow nerds are that are listening to this right now, but, like most marvel villains think they're doing something good and they have really great motivation and I, I like the way that they're written. And dc villains oh my god, so many dc villains are just like I'm bad because I'm bad, you know, and I don't know. I'm sure someone's gonna get mad at that comment, but that's what I tend to do you have any advice on crafting compelling characters?
Eric Smith:write a giant synopsis. I I know everyone hates them. I talk about them online all the time. But I'm telling you, I write like a 10 to 20 page synopsis for every book that I write and it makes the storytelling way easier. I can turn out the book way faster and I know what my characters want right. I know what their motivation is. I know what they don't like. I know what they're driven by. Write a big synopsis. You're going to hate it. You're going to hate it. But I'm telling you, you write a Wikipedia page for your own book in a big word document and it's going to make the process so much easier. And if you get me as a professor in the packet exchange, I'm going to make you do one. So just keep practicing the packet exchange.
J.D. Myall:I'm gonna make you do one, so just keep practicing love.
Eric Smith:That, um, do you have any advice on good dialogue? Oh yeah, I. I do something really weird when it comes to writing dialogue um. I read a lot of plays, so I read musicals, I read plays. The last five years is great.
Eric Smith:I was a theater kid so of course this is natural to me and I like reading musicals and plays anyway. But I'm telling you, read some plays, read some musicals. If you're really struggling and that's not quite for you, pick up some romance novels, romance novels and rom-coms, even if it's out of your category and genre of choice rom-com people who write rom-coms are masters of banter and masters of dialogue and they have dialogue that doesn't necessarily move the plot along, but it moves along the character growth in a really interesting way and you'll learn so much just from reading them. Go, treat yourself to an Emily Henry novel. She's wonderful, her books are great and you'll learn a lot.
J.D. Myall:Okay, I never had that answer before, by the way, and I've asked a lot of people that question. I like that. I'm telling okay, I never had that answer before, by the way, and I've asked a lot of people that question I like that.
Eric Smith:I'm telling you plays and musicals.
J.D. Myall:It's, it's, it's a thing what advice would you give students who are struggling with pacing?
Eric Smith:in their novels oh, struggling with pacing?
Eric Smith:That's a good question. Um, you know, usually when one of my books is oh, excuse me, usually when one of my books has pace that's dragging, it's because there's something in the book that doesn't belong there. Right, and this happens every time. I will sit down and I'll start reading and I'll get to a section I'm like, oh, I'm just going to skip over that and I try to move on to something else, that part that you're skipping over because it's boring yourself, that you're skipping over because it's boring yourself, I can go, you can get rid of it, because you, you obviously don't need it if you're not driven to read your own story there. Also, if you find that your world building is taking the place of the story, right, so, like your story should be what pulls the world building along, not the other way around. And when it's the other way around, that's when the pace slows down, when you're spending too much time describing every shrub in the haunted forest or something right, that's, that's not pulling your book along, that's dragging it back.
J.D. Myall:I'm laughing Cause that's my first draft. I always have to go back and bend it out.
Eric Smith:But you know what I think it's better to have way too much than to have too little right, because when you have too much, that's when you can go back and do the trimming, uh, and make sure all the good stuff is there. So like, feel free to write too much and then just go back what do you?
J.D. Myall:what advice do you have on world building?
Eric Smith:oh boy. Um, I think it ties back to me and how I like to ask why for everything? Right, like, make sure there's a reason for it. Right, make sure that it is something that informs the entirety of the world. Right, that there's like a firm purpose for everything. There I can share a little story. So, like, my first YA novel is a fantasy novel. It's called Inked. It came out forever ago and I remember when my editor bought it and we were going through edits and she was like so there's a lot of steampunk in this book.
Eric Smith:I was like yeah she's like why? Because it's cool and she's like it's not a reason why to have it. There's no steampunk in that novel. Now it came out. Nothing in there about it. It cut 30 000 words from the book of me describing the, the pistons and the gadgets and everything that did not belong in it. It didn't inform the world. It had no purpose. It was there for aesthetics. That's not a reason for elements in your world. It should do something, so make sure it does something.
Eric Smith:So you're saying with my agenting and my teaching?
J.D. Myall:Yeah, you're exposed to a lot of new writers between the two. What mistakes are you most often seeing?
Eric Smith:Oh, the mistakes I most often see. Yeah, I feel like the mistakes I see the most are people that just don't know the category that they're writing in or the genre. You know they'll say like oh, I'm writing a romance novel and then I start the book and like the love interest is like dead or something. I'm like well, it's not really not really gonna work there, um, or they're writing you know, I've written a young adult novel and the main character is like 26. You know it's like really simple mistakes, um, that like sometimes you don't know any better if you don't have like a writing community or or you know a, a class like this to sort of learn this stuff from. Um, those are the most common mistakes and they're they're. They're certainly easy to make if you're not aware of what the market looks like. So we'll make sure you don't make them what does the market look like?
J.D. Myall:what are you seeing right now?
Eric Smith:that's doing really well oh, um, well, I guess right now everyone wants, uh, high concept romantic comedies. So it's a, it's a rom-com that does something a little different, you know, a little magic, maybe a little little sci-fi somewhere in the mix. Um, I concept romances, just in general, are really big. Um, I've worked on a couple that have come out recently. Where are you, where's that book? Ah, there it is. Um, this one just came out this month called the spy, and I came out with Berkeley. It's a, a rom-com that happens to have a lot of action in it.
Eric Smith:Uh, this one came out back in January. It's a, uh, science fiction love story about two people trapped, uh, around a hydra, hadron collider, essentially. So, high concept romances, really big. Horror is really big right now. So, anything in the horror space children's books, adult books, you name it especially in children's books, cause I love horror in children's books because it's not so much about being gross and scary as it is teaching kids how to be brave about things, you know, and I just I think that's such a powerful storytelling, I guess device there. So, yeah, horror romances, oh boy, those are the two big ones right now for me.
J.D. Myall:Is dark academia still a thing or not so much? Oh yeah, people always love that.
Eric Smith:Okay, for sure.
J.D. Myall:Okay, academia is still a thing or not so much. Oh yeah, people always love that okay oh for sure.
Eric Smith:Okay, are there any websites or tools that you think are essential to helping new writers navigate their own writing journeys? Oh, tools and websites. I mean, I know a lot when it comes to, like, the publishing world, uh, those sort of websites. So if you're looking for those kind of resources, you know I recommend publishers marketplace. Publishers weekly has a great newsletter. Writers digest has a great newsletter. Uh, I recommend podcasts like print run, which is just probably the best industry podcast. Um, the shit no one tells you about writing is a fantastic podcast run by two of my coworkers. Let me see, deadline city is a is a great podcast If you're into middle grade and young adult books. It's run by Daniel Clinton's right A Cordova. Let's do a lot of industry.
Eric Smith:Podcasts are very, very helpful in terms of writing advice, that's. I feel like that's a harder one. I would. I would look up Jamie Attenberg. She runs 1000 days of summer wait, 1000, 100 days of summer, which is a a great uh like, I guess, yearly online writing campaign. But she also has a book, uh, called 100 days of summer. That's really, really helpful. Uh, I'd look up charlie jane anders. Uh, they're a magnificent sci-fi author who has a she. They have a book called um never say you can't survive, and it's probably my favorite book about craft and the writing life, so I would definitely pick that up.
J.D. Myall:And uh yeah, jamie attenberg and charlie are two two good authors to start with, I think what advice do you offer students when they start getting rejected by agents and publishers and literary agents like how do you? What advice would you offer them on the rejection?
Eric Smith:part of a writing I would say just to keep going, like, please, keep going. You know, I look at the clients that I work with in my agent life and you know one of them, you know, after we sold her first book. So I signed her and her first book sold in like three months and she texted me when we saw the pre-order link go live and and we talked about the fact that she had been pitching agents for something like 10 years. It was like a really long time trying to find an agent, um, and it just had to be the right book, right. And then I have other authors who, like, started querying, signed with me after a month and then we sold their book in like 10 days.
Eric Smith:Like everyone's journey is so wildly different, uh, and it just has to be the book at the right time. There's this element of like luck and like publishing alchemy that happens sometimes in this business. You just have to keep going and find that right person and I feel very fortunate to be the right person for quite a few people looking at my books right now. But it takes. It takes a while and remember, if you're in the program, I am here to be a resource for you when you start querying agents. Please let me know if you have questions, if you want advice. You can't pitch me, but I feel like it's more valuable to have me as a friend who will advise you for as long as you need.
J.D. Myall:Love that, Because I imagine your inbox would be swollen all the time with students. Yeah, no, it's not. It's a bit of a disaster but I like it. What's the best piece of writing advice you've ever been given?
Eric Smith:Best piece of writing advice. I feel like this. I don't know if this is gonna register with with everybody the way I wanted to, but I remember my first book was coming out. I had an event at bea book expo america in new york. They don't do it anymore, but it was a big, big festival. It used to be really wonderful. Uh, and I was talking to nicola y. She's the one who wrote everything, everything, yeah, just wonderful. She blurbed one of my books a couple of years ago and I was asking I was like what advice do you have for somebody with a first book coming out?
Eric Smith:And she told me she's like you know what, have something else. And I was like, well, I don't know what, hook everything you got to your life and writing, you know, to to the books that you're working on, to the book that maybe you have coming out, or the book that you have that you're pitching around, um, because that's just not healthy. Right, there's, there's, there's a lot more going on than just that. Uh, so have something else. You know, have a. Have a fun hobby that you like. I play a lot of video games. I like the garden. I'm terrible at it. Everything dies. I try my best. You know, I spend a lot of time with my friends and my family. Just make sure there's something else going on, um, because really publishing the whole process is so out of your control, right?
Eric Smith:Like waiting for people to say yes, waiting for the book to come out, hoping the trade magazines will like it, hoping you get reviews. Like you can't control any of it, right, so like, have something else, that's in your control You'll be much happier.
J.D. Myall:Love that, I love that. Any advice on revision.
Eric Smith:Say yes to the stuff that works for you and just remember again, it's the whole. And say yes to the stuff that works for you and just remember again, it's the whole. We're trying to help you tell the best version of your story thing. So stick with what works. And when it comes to critiques with your colleagues or your cohort or your MFA friends, try to think about where they're coming from with their critique, right, because you know you're going to have some people critiquing your books that maybe don't read what you happen to be writing, right? That happens all the time. Um, take what you can from it. Uh, if it doesn't work for you, it's okay. Like, I can't tell you how many times I have, like, a student who's writing fantasy and no one in the cohort is writing a fantasy novel, right, and the critiques they get back are usually so brutal and it's very upsetting and we have to have talks about it. Take what works for you and everything else with a sort of grain of salt there.
Eric Smith:That was me.
Denny S. Bryce:It's the worst.
J.D. Myall:But I hear they're getting more fantasy students. Now I hear that the following cohorts it's been excellent, I will probably get you.
Eric Smith:Then You're a fantasy student.
J.D. Myall:How did you end up agenting in Canada?
Eric Smith:So I started my publishing career at Quirk, which is a publisher here in Philly. I was there for a pretty long time, the agency opening at PS literary, because I had done the marketing and publicity for two of their clients at at my at the publishing house. So I reached out and I was like hey, you know, like I I I've never been an agent before, but I've worked in publishing for a long time. I have books that I've written. I think I'd be good at it. Can we have a conversation? And and they can we have a conversation? And they wanted to talk to me and I have never been to the office. It's been eight years and I've never gone to the office. That's sort of how it happened. It's the kind of career jump you see a lot of people make when they become agents. It's from sometimes they come from the author space, sometimes they come from being a lawyer and sometimes they come from having worked in publishing.
J.D. Myall:Cool Is it? Was it hard to learn? Was it an adjustment? Was it an easy process?
Eric Smith:The adjustment period was more the like financial constraints right so like agents work on commission right so like got to start selling books to make it a career. So you know, I didn't really sell my first books until a couple of months in and that still that doesn't really generate a salary right away. So yeah, that part was difficult. The getting to know editors and getting to pitch books part. That that part wasn't difficult because I already knew a bunch of people. It's pretty familiar with the publishing industry and the places the books could potentially go. That part I don't want to say it was easy, but it wasn't as challenging okay.
J.D. Myall:Is there anything about being part of an mfa program and the realities of publishing that you think new writers should know? That we haven't covered.
Eric Smith:Yet how is the mfa program the realities? I don't know. That's a really good question. I don't think so. Well, you know, let's talk about the reality of publishing, and do they have faculty and advisors that are part of the current business? Do they have books with major publishers? Do they have experience? If that's not there, that's a problem for that program, in my opinion, and Drexel doesn't have that problem, so that's not a thing to potentially worry about. I don't know if someone else out there is watching this and thinking about MFA programs. That's the thing to look out for.
J.D. Myall:Love that, love that. Any final advice or words of wisdom to share?
Eric Smith:Oh, just to take your time. Anyone who's writing and working on your thesis or planning to enter a program like this generally you have a good two years to finish that book. Take your time working on your thesis or or planning to enter a program like this. You know, generally you have a good two years to finish that book. Take your time working on it. You know this is the time to really just I don't know let that book grow and work with critique partners and just polish it up as much as you can. Don't rush it.
Eric Smith:Don't be that person that waits three months before graduation and then you're madly banging out your book. Don't do that. That defeats the purpose of like working together. So, uh, yeah, take your time, watch the potential ticking clock there and and enjoy it, because these you know being in this sort of mfa bubble here where you get to work so closely with people that doesn't always exist post-graduation and into your career, like even for me now, like my 10th book came out and now I'm working on something new and I have to like email all new critique partners, because all my buddies are in different spaces in their career and some don't have time and some have too many kids and it's just, it's a whole thing. So, uh, enjoy it. Enjoy it while it's here, okay, all right, well, we will talk soon.
J.D. Myall:Yep have a blessed one you too.
Speaker 5:Bye. That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD Meyer. Thanks for joining us. If you liked the episode, please comment, subscribe and share. For show notes, writing workshops and tips, head to jdmayocom. That's jdmayocom. While you're there, join jd's mailing list for updates, giveaways and more.